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Ozzy50

200 tdi over revving

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Hi all I’m seeking help , I have just started a 200 tdi disco that has been stood for , at best guess , 7 years , I haven’t touched the fuel or anything just stuck a battery on and turned the key , it fired instantly  and immediately started running at 2500 rpm so naturally I shut it off, upon re firing it again fired straight up and again revved straight up to 2500 rpm , the smoke from the exhaust looks like over fuelling rather than oil burning (obviously I was/am worried that it’s running on its own oil although I don’t think it is ) the fuel in the tank smells like paraffin(it’s been there 7 years so I guess it would ) does it sound like there’s a governor or something stuck in the injector pump ? I confess to knowing nothing about the internals  of the Lucas pump , any help would be greatly appreciated.

James 

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Oh yeah, it’s not the throttle stuck open , I checked 

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I should also add that I had to rip the back off the ignition switch as I have lost the key but I can’t see how that would affect anything 

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Could be piston rings stuck if not been used for so long this would enable oil to bypass rings and act as a fuel thus increasing rpm as effectively more fuel available

Just read full post and you' covered the above  sorry

Edited by Stellaghost
Change

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4 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

Could be piston rings stuck if not been used for so long this would enable oil to bypass rings and act as a fuel thus increasing rpm as effectively more fuel available

Just read full post and you' covered the above  sorry

No you could be right as I’m starting to think that the smoke smells of oil , I’m not going to run it again for now anyway, stuck rings = knackered bores if I run it . Would it have fired up so quickly with stuck rings though ? I will check if it’s pressuring the crankcase , thing is this engine was always a brilliant starter and runner , its been in 4 different motors now , my dad had it rebuilt with about 180,000 miles on it , it must have done 250,000 by now . I was getting it running to sell it but I’m starting to think I should fix it and put it back into my 110 !

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Just fired it again to try and check crankcase pressure, it started revving even higher and the smoke is definitely blue now (maybe it was before and I just didn’t see it ?) so I’m thinking stuck rings ?Anyway I shut it straight down , looks like a rebuild is needed 

Edited by Ozzy50
Forgot summat

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I believe it's pretty common for the governor in the injection pump to stick after long periods without use. The 'resting' position is full throttle to aid starting hence when they stick it goes to full revs straight away.

I'm not sure on a solution but I suspect it will involve freeing the mechanism up by stripping the pump.

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Definately a contender don't know if there is something available to soak in the bores to assist loosening the rings off

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8 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

I believe it's pretty common for the governor in the injection pump to stick after long periods without use. The 'resting' position is full throttle to aid starting hence when they stick it goes to full revs straight away.

I'm not sure on a solution but I suspect it will involve freeing the mechanism up by stripping the pump.

That was my original thought 

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11 minutes ago, Retroanaconda said:

I believe it's pretty common for the governor in the injection pump to stick after long periods without use. The 'resting' position is full throttle to aid starting hence when they stick it goes to full revs straight away.

I'm not sure on a solution but I suspect it will involve freeing the mechanism up by stripping the pump.

That was my original thought 

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It's a Bosch VE pump and this was covered recently on here by someone in the Defender section but I can't remember who it was - theirs freed off  by opening and shutting the throttle - engine off . Otherwise it's a case of removing the FIP and having it cleaned by a specialist . If you want to try running it briefly to try and free it disconnect the breather and turbo to inlet manifold first . It was not running on it's own oil as you would not have been able to turn it off or indeed see anything for black smoke...:)

cheers

Steve b

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It was me! 300 tdi, flicked the throttle open and closed lots of times with the cable off and started and stopped it lots of times

 

Left it for a few days and was going to get the pump off but gave it one last try.... It had freed off and is now perfect

 

Don't give up hope too easily

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Sorry steve b , of course it’s a Bosch pump not a Lucas ! L19 , I will give it a try . 

Thank you to everyone who has offered advice 👍🏻

Edited by Ozzy50

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31 minutes ago, L19MUD said:

It was me! 300 tdi, flicked the throttle open and closed lots of times with the cable off and started and stopped it lots of times

 

Left it for a few days and was going to get the pump off but gave it one last try.... It had freed off and is now perfect

 

Don't give up hope too easily

....sorry Sam :)  , been a lot going on lately

It's worth a crack Ozzy , take the precautions and all should be safe enough  - I'd have something  to hand to block the inlet manifold , just as a back up stop method , but that's just me .

Steve b

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1 hour ago, steve b said:

....sorry Sam :)  , been a lot going on lately

It's worth a crack Ozzy , take the precautions and all should be safe enough  - I'd have something  to hand to block the inlet manifold , just as a back up stop method , but that's just me .

Steve b

Gonna give it a go tomorrow steve , thanks for the advice . 

And just to show how good a starter this 200tdi is , I took the battery off it and put it on the 300tdi I have for sale on here (little plug !) and it wouldn’t turn it over so I drop tested it and the battery is knackered! This engine is amazing 😂

Edited by Ozzy50
Forgot summat again !

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The pumps give maximum fueling during starting.  When they get over around 500 rpm, fly weights are meant to move the spool to the idle location.  When they sit, the spool gets stuck and it just sits there at maximum fueling output.

Fill the pump directly with diesel fuel conditioner and let it sit.  It usually fixes the problem after a few flushes.

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3 minutes ago, Red90 said:

The pumps give maximum fueling during starting.  When they get over around 500 rpm, fly weights are meant to move the spool to the idle location.  When they sit, the spool gets stuck and it just sits there at maximum fueling output.

Fill the pump directly with diesel fuel conditioner and let it sit.  It usually fixes the problem after a few flushes.

Ok thank you 

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I would disconnect the filter discharge line (that goes to the injection pump).  Disconnect the injection pump solenoid wire so that the engine does not run.   Rig up a funnel to the line.  Run the starter until you get say 500 ml in.  Then let sit over night.

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Hi all , I would just like to thank Stellaghost, Retroanaconda ,  Steve b , L19MUD and Red 90 for their advice , I tried the cheat(?) methods to no joy but haven’t gotten round to filling the pump with fuel conditioner yet however the prospective purchaser has decided to take it as is with a view to looking at the problem himself so I have passed the advice on , just got the transfer box to whip out (1.4 ) and he’s taking the whole motor ,again thanks guys .

James 

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I don't know if anyone has already mentioned it, I haven't read every reply in detail? If it was running on its own oil, how do you shut it off? Normally, under those conditions, they keep on running until you either block the air inlet, or they self destruct.

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It wasn’t running on its own oil , the throttle governor is stuck open , or so it appears anyway

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