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Td5 refusing to start now...argh!

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Hi All,

I have a very sad Defender in the workshop and I could really do with some advice from people way more knowledgable than me!

Its a 2000 Td5 Defender 110. I see there is a whole lot of threads on Td5s not starting however could not locate something to let me know if there is something else I can try or if I just need to get some professional help ūüíį.

I had just replaced the engine oil and started it up no problems to let the oil distribute through the engine. It was not driven anywhere. The next morning I went back to the workshop and to my disbelief, it would not start. I'm like what the..?????????? 

So everything is normal when I¬†turn the key, (confirmed the alarm is unlocked using the key fob),¬†turn¬†key, dash lights etc come on, accessories liven up, ¬†fuel pump primes system, turn to start... nothing. No sounds, just the silence of despair and frustration...! Possible¬†ūüĎĻ¬†possession?

Checked all fuses. All OK. The battery is in very good condition. Got under Landy and checked all electrical grounding straps/connections. All good. I tested the main power cable to the starter and confirmed power, the smaller cable to the starter, however, was not getting power when the key was turned to start position. OK, so the problem identified?

Removed the starter relay and confirmed on the load side of the relay that one had 12v and the other side went to ground. On the control side, one side was getting power when the key was turned to start (good) but the other side was not going to ground (not so good).

Removed the screws holding in the fuse/relay bracket in and, from memory, it was a brown orange wire that is on the ground side of the relays control circuit.

Trying to be smart, I thought if I connected it directly to ground the problem would be solved. I tried this and plugged starter relay back in. 

Turned key as before and...It started! Yes! High fives. But.... the celebrations were over quickly as it only ran for a few seconds and then cut out. Going off previous threads, I expect the immobiliser is interfering in this configuration?

I have restored this ground wire to its original state (reconnected it) so I'm back to nothing happening when I turn the key.

I have pushed my skills to the limit and I am out of ideas...

I do not have a nanocom or equivalent ecu reader.

I do not understand how electrics can be perfect (I know, I know.... lets say "starter circuit" in this instance... :) ) for years, and then not work only a few hours later without any direct interference.

Any ideas on something I can do to fix this problem? ¬†I am supposed to be using the car tomorrow to go on a trip, so no chance to get help from a sparky (or priestūü§£) prior to then... so wondering if there is something I can try or if its a case for some pro help and¬†an alternative transport plan... Thank you in advance!

 

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Probably starter solenoid contacts. Sometimes can be temporarily fixed by a few taps on the solenoid with a hammer. Otherwise plenty of kits to do it, no need for a new starter.

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Thank you¬†cackshifter for your comments. I don't know what is causing this issue so I will seek out some professional help¬†and look at stealing a car in the meantime!¬†ūüĎ欆Cheers!

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Mmm if you hadnt said it had cut out after running a few seconds I would have stuck to original suggestion. A friend's here had solenoid contact problems and was very similar, it was a lottery as to whether there was life in the starter or not. But once running it did stay running. You hadnt changed the fuel filter by any chance? Just wondering if there are 2 things going on. No doubt an adult will be along soon to put us right.

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Before finishing the original post I too thought starter then saw "it cut out" phrase....

That could literally be anything...

What else, if anything did you touch when changing the oil?

It's usually something in the actions you went through... If you changed the diesel filter... Did you purge properly to expel air etc.?

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Thanks for the comments - checked inertia switch - thought that might be it.  I expect its the passive immobiliser being an interfering so and so... Im going to try new battery in the key fob. possibly a long shot but easy fix.

 

I can't think of anything I mucked around with during oil change/inspection that could have caused this problem. I did not change the diesel filter this time around. Very weird why it suddenly freaked out on me.

 

Thank you for the comments - ill keep you posted.

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Hmmm but why is it running for a few seconds when you bipass the ground on the starter relay... if it was imobiliser id argue it wouldnt start full stop.

Are you getting any red light flashing on the speedo cluster? 

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Ok,bit more sober now... You have two possibilities, hopefully it's just lost it's synch between the alarm ecu and the engine ecu. That it fires a few times then stops confirms this when you subbed a ground to the start relay. The other possibility is that the alarm ecu has developed a fault. A Nanocom is the way forward now if you can't get a local Indy to look at it. 

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A friends Defender TD5 got a problem with the immobiliser and would start run for a couple of seconds then stop. We didnt have access to a Nanaocom at the time and it ended up at the stealers. Apparently the engine will start and look for the code from the fob, if it doesnt find it in a couple of seconds it cuts the engine.

Toby

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Now i think on it, one of our old team Td5's did this thing that if she'd been standing and you unlocked with the fob got it started then about 10 second into the drive the engine would cut out. Simple solution was to open close the truck with the fob few times before getting in and starting. Try locking unlocking it a few times?

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Hi everyone, Thank you all for your comments. "OK,a bit more sober now" ha ha ha i like the "a bit more" part!  I have been off air for a couple of days and still out of town, I will be back to the landy on Friday.  I will definitely try locking/unlocking a few times and see if that does the trick. The new battery in the key fob did not make any difference - long shot but I was hopeful this might be an easy fix! It's looking like this issue is down to this passive immobiliser interfering with the ecu for some reason. I have a plan... for now. Talking to an independent land rover pro in the north island he is recommending I remove the engine ecu / alarm ecu and send those up to him with the key fob and he will check them out and reprogramme them via another vehicle. I will give that a go and hopefully, that works. May end up losing the passive immobiliser function (not ideal) but will see how it goes. If that doesn't work.... well i'll be putting the thing on a truck and sending him the whole vehicle. Figure the ecu's and a key fob is a bit easier to move 600+kms north at this stage than 2+ tonne of some very fine automotive engineering... I will keep you posted on how I get on. Big thank you to everyone who has posted comments for me. very much appreciate the support. thank you! BR Scott

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Your Indy is asking the right question,send him those bits and it will get sorted. I am totally sober now and at work... You can send them to me and I'll do the same job,time and postage might be a bit more in both cases ! Save up for a Nanocom too, you could do all this yourself then - on the side of the road if need be.

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\

On 3/7/2019 at 1:43 AM, Ally V8 said:

Your Indy is asking the right question,send him those bits and it will get sorted. I am totally sober now and at work... You can send them to me and I'll do the same job,time and postage might be a bit more in both cases ! Save up for a Nanocom too, you could do all this yourself then - on the side of the road if need be.

Thank you for the comment/offer much appreciated - parts are on the way north so I will see how this goes. I did try the manual immobilise override procedure before I sent the parts off as a last ditch effort to get her going. This is using the key to enter a code whilst opening the door in between each entry - convoluted process but thought it could be worth a try. It didn't.  Immediately removed both ECUs in disgust and sent them off. I will advise how things go...

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hi all, quick update - the alarm and engine ecu¬†+ key fob went up to a qualified adult for diagnosis and some stern words / reprogram. Of course, they arrived, were fitted to a donor vehicle..... and¬†worked perfectly...!¬†ūü§¨¬†The issue could not be replicated. So they are on their way back to me for a reinstall in the Landy. If they don't work I will be giving the Defender a right telling off. ¬†I will keep you posted... Cheers Scotty

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My head is thinking this is more than one issue.

If we assume the loom is good, crank sensor is good, assume the secondary alarm / immobiliser is not broken and we know ECU and associated is good.... It could be this...

Starter solenoid needs a rebuild.

It started randomly after fiddling then stopped and won't crank.

What if the stopping was fuel starvation and now the starter solenoid contacts are stuck again? (So won't crank)

Process of elimination I'd follow.

Remove starter and clean the contact surfaces in the solenoid. This is well documented and is not too hard to do even lying under the truck with a basic socket set.

When replaced... Does it crank. If yes.... Did it start?

If no, purge the fuel system several times. Try again.

If still cranking but not starting, remove the inertia switch connectors and short across the plug connections with a bit of wire. Try again.

 

Check the crank sensor wires are connected.....

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Is it worth checking the ECU earth in the seat box? 

Mine went dodgy and gave intermittent running issue as it made and lost continuity.

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Thanks for the suggestions, very much appreciated. First plan is to reinstall the ECU's, show Defender big hammer so it knows what's coming if it misbehaves, and then try for a start. if this does not work I will run through this troubleshooting and report back....¬†might take a bottle of scotch with me tomorrow, looks like i will need it¬†ūü§£

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When all attached the first stage is does it crank.

If not then you need to focus on getting it to crank first.. (Obvs it won't run if you can't crank ;) )

contacts.thumb.jpg.b1a721c4db32f3b2add9005d5fc5995b.jpg

The shiny bits get all blackened as they arc over time... Easy enough to access and clean.. (Refurb kits available on the interweb.)

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hi all, ECU's back in and still same problem (not suprised!). turn key to psition II and everything normal - dash lights up, fuel pump primes system etc. Turn to position III nothing happens... will have a look at ideas above. but to confirm - no crank. cheers! 

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