Phill S Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just finalising the re-assembly of my 1987 18J 2.5 diesel N/A engine and sorting out which washer goes where. Just to increase the fun, I've managed to mix the ones from the engine gasket set with the head gasket ones to form one big puzzle. Being as how most of them are quite cunningly shaped it's probably important which ones go where. Spent most of the afternoon trying to cross reference workshop manual, parts book and what came off of the vehicle - don't feel I got very far! I believe I've got the aluminium ones sorted, all except the two shown, but then there's a sea of copper ones: I believe the top row first two columns of 4 are the ones that go between the injectors, that the 3rd column of 4 is for the block to head oil pipe, but I'm having difficulty with the rest. And I might have those wrong anyway. Dunno what those two aluminium ones are. One of those singletons in the second row has to be for the sump plug, but that's not accessible because I have the engine supported on wooden blocks at the moment so that the sump doesn't shift, so not been able to pin that one down. And just to clarify, this is the entire complement of copper washers from both block and head gasket sets. Anybody bored enough to have a shot at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Are they really copper, though? Britpart supply cheap Chinese sourced steel washers that have a thin copper plating, absolutely useless and easily identified with a magnet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 4 hours ago, Snagger said: Are they really copper, though? Britpart supply cheap Chinese sourced steel washers that have a thin copper plating, absolutely useless and easily identified with a magnet. Not just Britpart - I have a Laser assortment pack of copper washers that will happily stick to a magnet I think these days you're very lucky to find any that are pure copper. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 In the days of copper coated aluminium wire strands and copper coated steel jaws (automotive jump leads) I accept the caution is valid, but many of those in question are 'folded' crush washers. The basic flat sealing washers also have 'deformable' as a required trait. It will be an interesting test to see if crush and sealing washers have also become 'steel underneath'. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 Hi guys. Checked all the copper coloured ones when I opened the packs and they're all non-magnetic. Of course, I'm going to have to check again now... The head gasket set is from Payen, and dangerously I had assumed all components would be "right". This morning I was reading White90's account of how to change the head gasket on my type of engine: He shows the correct washers for the injectors and I see I have that wrong, so back to the drawing board on those - that guy seems to know what he's talking about and has made some excellent contributions elsewhere. If I look on the Dingocroft website and search for "injectors fitting kit" for Defender, I find tghe description mentions "steel crush washers" that look as if they just might be like the ones described in the workshop manual. All of my non copper coloured washers are flat - do Payen give you the wrong ones? Understanding a little more now of what they are supposed to look like, I wouldn't be surprised if those ones are still nestling in the cylinder head. I'll have a poke around next time I'm down at the workshop. The gasket set for the block is from Bearmach. I swore I'd never buy any of their stuff ever again a few years ago when I had an RV8 coolant drain tap fall apart in my hands, but I assumed the gaskets and washers should be ok. I've used OEM seals on the front shafts and original Land Rover for the rear crank seal. So - having mis-identified the injector washers, I think I'm going to have to start my process of elimination from the beginning again and re-issue the spot-the-washer challenge. Watch this space... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 There's a difference between the copper and copper coated washers. We use a lot of copper coated stuff at work, particularly copper plated stainless. I'm not entirely sure on the properties and reasoning behind it. But probably just been missed by someone purchasing and thinking their supply costs can then be cheaper rather than deliberately as something that is just copper plated isn't going to seal like a proper copper washer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 That thread you linked to was done by Les Henson not white90 he only uploaded it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 3 hours ago, Phill S said: The head gasket set is from Payen, and dangerously I had assumed all components would be "right". Payen gaskets are ok, the supplied washers are nearly always wrong though (as you've discovered), they also used to supply the old type orange rear main oil seal in the kits, long after it had been superseded by the newer Dowty seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill S Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share Posted June 13, 2021 On 6/11/2021 at 8:06 PM, western said: That thread you linked to was done by Les Henson not white90 he only uploaded it. Sorry about that, but credit now placed where it's due! On 6/11/2021 at 8:31 PM, pat_pending said: Payen gaskets are ok, the supplied washers are nearly always wrong though Hmm - thanks for the warning, beginning to loose confidence in Land Rover suppliers. Maybe I need to just junk what I've got and buy them as individual components? Got a little time in the workshop this morning, so here's the full complement of washers I've got from the combined Payen head gasket and Bearmach engine block sets. I do try to be rigorous about keeping things organised but the two sets somehow got combined in a workshop tidy up. Always a mistake. Nothing here is magnetic, so I'm assuming the silver ones are all aluminium. So top row - the aluminium ones. I think the first block of 8 are for the fuel spill rail, the second block of 8 (which are identical to the first block) are for the screws that hold the tappet slides in place? Then there are 3 for the rocker cover? The final 2 I have not been able to take a guess at. Bottom row next. these are all different to each other, and different to any of the other ones. One has to be the sump drain plug, but won't be able to pin that down until the engine is back in. In the middle. The 1st column of 4 surely have to be intended as the flat injector washers, although the ones I have are 1.32mm thickness, and the ones that came out are 1.40mm. is that going to be ok? I can find no trace in the head of the steel washers mentioned in the w/shop manual. Come to that I can find no trace of a steel washer from the gasket sets either! I suspect plenty of folks visiting the forum won't wade through this little lot, so I'll take it item by item now with separate postings on specific topics. I think it'll just get too messy otherwise. I'd sort of thought it might be a bit more straightforward... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 They could also be stainless steel if they’re non magnetic… but you’ll feel the difference and be obvious if you try to scratch them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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