Escape Posted July 22, 2021 Author Share Posted July 22, 2021 Thanks for the encouragement Simon! The engine definitely isn't seized, we just hoped it would at least try to come alive without the turbo's to prove it's health. I got a message from the owner today, asking me to go ahead and replace the turbos. So we're in for the full monty. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 I meant to add that while I was repairing the front end on my current sport and replacing the front body cross member at the time it looked very likely that the engine and turbos could be removed from the front with the front end stripped down. When it comes to removing the engine to sell it I will experiment and see if that is an option as taking the headlights, the grille, slam panel and the two cross members off is much easier than taking the body shell off even if some minor welding is required to refit. Will keep you posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 Some (overdue) updates: It took me some time to get new/refurbished turbos. Apparently no one had the LHS in stock. I was not really amused some thought it a good idea to proceed with the order and just send me one turbo instead of a set. Especially as the LHS really needed replacement, broken shaft and all... In the end I did find 2 cores, thanks to @elbekko digging around for cross references instead of the LR partnrs. The rebuild went fairly smooth even if it took some time. I then somehow managed to get both turbos fitted to the car again, took slightly longer than the removal to fiddle everything in place but no major obstacles. I'm still convinced I could not have saved time by removing the body and am sure that would have brought along plenty of other problems like broken clips etc. I turned over the starter a couple of times to build oil pressure and on the second attempt she fired up and immediately settled to a nice and stable idle. Victory! I thought, until I noticed some drops of oil under the car. Turned out one of the gaskets on the left return pipe got pinched and was leaking. Not too bad, just a bit fiddly to fit a new one. And at least a leak in the return was prove there was a good supply of oil to the turbo. The oil leak taken care of I took the car for a spin, once getting up to temperature a lot of smoke, probably due to some oil and cleaning agent remaining in the pipework. I took it easy but the engine seemed to run nicely and wanted to rev. The smoke cleared after a few (short) runs so all seemed well. Not so much, yesterday got a call from the owner he had again broken down. Big cloud of smoke, no power and then the engine stalled. When we went out to recover him I immediately spotted some oil under the LHS turbo... I didn't have the courage to start taking everything apart again yesterday evening... Not sure what I'll find, everything point to the turbo, the only place oil can leak out would be feed or return pipe (feed pipe looks dry as far as I can see) or the new core has already failed due to some underlying and unresolved problem. 😞 Stay tuned for updates, I'll start over on Tuesday (if I can muster the courage). Filip 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 16 minutes ago, Escape said: Some (overdue) updates: It took me some time to get new/refurbished turbos. Apparently no one had the LHS in stock. I was not really amused some thought it a good idea to proceed with the order and just send me one turbo instead of a set. Especially as the LHS really needed replacement, broken shaft and all... In the end I did find 2 cores, thanks to @elbekko digging around for cross references instead of the LR partnrs. The rebuild went fairly smooth even if it took some time. I then somehow managed to get both turbos fitted to the car again, took slightly longer than the removal to fiddle everything in place but no major obstacles. I'm still convinced I could not have saved time by removing the body and am sure that would have brought along plenty of other problems like broken clips etc. I turned over the starter a couple of times to build oil pressure and on the second attempt she fired up and immediately settled to a nice and stable idle. Victory! I thought, until I noticed some drops of oil under the car. Turned out one of the gaskets on the left return pipe got pinched and was leaking. Not too bad, just a bit fiddly to fit a new one. And at least a leak in the return was prove there was a good supply of oil to the turbo. The oil leak taken care of I took the car for a spin, once getting up to temperature a lot of smoke, probably due to some oil and cleaning agent remaining in the pipework. I took it easy but the engine seemed to run nicely and wanted to rev. The smoke cleared after a few (short) runs so all seemed well. Not so much, yesterday got a call from the owner he had again broken down. Big cloud of smoke, no power and then the engine stalled. When we went out to recover him I immediately spotted some oil under the LHS turbo... I didn't have the courage to start taking everything apart again yesterday evening... Not sure what I'll find, everything point to the turbo, the only place oil can leak out would be feed or return pipe (feed pipe looks dry as far as I can see) or the new core has already failed due to some underlying and unresolved problem. 😞 Stay tuned for updates, I'll start over on Tuesday (if I can muster the courage). Filip Ah bad luck. I was hoping to be reading a success story Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted September 13, 2021 Author Share Posted September 13, 2021 31 minutes ago, L19MUD said: Ah bad luck. I was hoping to be reading a success story Not giving up yet, we might still get there! 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 2 hours ago, L19MUD said: Ah bad luck. I was hoping to be reading a success story ... Same here, fingers crossed for something simple. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 I got the turbo out again, only took about 3 hours now that I knew what I was doing and could cut a few more corners (like leaving the prop in place)... It doesn't look good. First off, there was a lot of oil (as in 1-2 liter!) in the air hoses, both from the air filter and to the intercooler. The intercooler also held a good amount of oil. So clearly the turbo oil feed was working (I did clean and check it before putting the rebuild turbo in) but something caused the seals to fail again. Once I had it on the bench, much to my surprise the entire compressor wheel was missing! I found some debris and swarf in the oil, more than last time. But not nearly enough to make up an entire compressor wheel. So either the parts fell out while I struggled the turbo out of the car or it got blown into the engine (or at least into the intercooler). What really needs answering is what could have caused this rapid failure? I can't just put another turbo in and hope for the best... I'll send an email to the supplier for advice. I didn't expect the turbos to last another 400k km but certainly not fail straight away either. I also need to decide what to do with the RHS. It seems fine, I'll check for oil in the pipework but don't really feel like taking everything apart again without good reason either. Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Poore Posted September 17, 2021 Share Posted September 17, 2021 The 4.4TDV8s have a mod that can be done to the drain pipe because of insufficient flow I think. Although I don't recall seeing it happen or mention it happening on a 3.6 it made me wonder could the drain pipes have got some swarf / become bunged up to prevent the oil draining back and thereby blocking up the turbos with oil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted September 17, 2021 Author Share Posted September 17, 2021 The drains are a stiff pipe, I blew through it with some cleaner before reassembling. All seemed well but I'll double check when I get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 5, 2021 Author Share Posted November 5, 2021 I just realized (after reading @Simon_CSK had similar problems with a TDV8) I never told the end of this story. Sorry 'bout that, seems to be a bad habit of mine. I got a new (rebuilt) turbo to try again, at the request of the owner. Before fitting it, I went over everything again and tried to verify oil flow on the starter. No luck, on the contrary: the starter motor stalled after half a turn. I tried by hand, with decent length of pipe but can't get the engine to turn anymore. It's properly seized. 😞 Really buggered after all the work we put in and especially as we came very close and had it running again, if only for a few days. It's now sitting in the yard, trying to sell of the parts. But not much response so far. Filip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 13 hours ago, Escape said: I just realized (after reading @Simon_CSK had similar problems with a TDV8) I never told the end of this story. Sorry 'bout that, seems to be a bad habit of mine. I got a new (rebuilt) turbo to try again, at the request of the owner. Before fitting it, I went over everything again and tried to verify oil flow on the starter. No luck, on the contrary: the starter motor stalled after half a turn. I tried by hand, with decent length of pipe but can't get the engine to turn anymore. It's properly seized. 😞 Really buggered after all the work we put in and especially as we came very close and had it running again, if only for a few days. It's now sitting in the yard, trying to sell of the parts. But not much response so far. Filip Filip The seizing could be oil in the cylinder. I was told about this a while ago. Take off the top intercooler hoses, rock the engine back and forth on the crank until you are able to turn full revolutions, once you can do two or three revolutions of the engine try starting it. When I tried it the first time it just kept clicking but I retried and my engine fired up. The turbo was still shot but the engine was running fine. The car is now fixing about three other TDV8's lol. My guess is the engine isn't seized just hydrauliced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 I tried turning it backwards as well, but not the slightest movement either. I find it hard to believe that could be due to oil in a cylinder, especially after sitting for a few weeks. At 400k km I'd be very surprised if the oil rings would give that good a seal! Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 6, 2021 Share Posted November 6, 2021 What a nightmare 😞 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 12 hours ago, Escape said: I tried turning it backwards as well, but not the slightest movement either. I find it hard to believe that could be due to oil in a cylinder, especially after sitting for a few weeks. At 400k km I'd be very surprised if the oil rings would give that good a seal! Â My neighbour is an Aeri engineer and Toyota enthusiast. We discussed it for a long time before I tried it and neither of us beleived that it would work. We were both amazed? Is there ant play at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 7, 2021 Author Share Posted November 7, 2021 12 hours ago, Simon_CSK said: Is there ant play at all? Nope, none at all. Access to the front pulley bolt is limited but I managed to get a breaker bar on it but it would not budge no matter how hard I tried... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 9 hours ago, Escape said: Nope, none at all. Access to the front pulley bolt is limited but I managed to get a breaker bar on it but it would not budge no matter how hard I tried... Take out the injectors and try turning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 We've given up, the owner (or rather his missus) has bought a Discovery Sport to replace it with and we're stripping the Sport for parts. Given the mileage it's hard to justify pouring more money into it and after the 2 failed turbos I'd have a hard time really trusting the car for longer journeys. When I get to the engine I might try taking out the injectors and see if it will turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_CSK Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 What state are the "new Turbos" in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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