L19MUD Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I have a genuine early 'HA' chassis number 200tdi station wagon which is with me to sort a couple of issues for a mate. I have been scratching my head trying to work out the right parts from Microcat but think I have now figured it out, although would like a grown up to verify 🙂 It looks to me that someone has replaced the Defender 200tdi at some point with a Discovery 200tdi but swapped over the intake/exhaust manifolds over with the turbo etc. This is what confused me as at first glance everything looks right. The mounting points on the timing case for an air con compressor should have been a giveaway though - these were only ever on the Disco? Problem number 1 is that the rear right top thermostat bolt has been sheared and then drilled out in the lower housing without success. This looks like Discovery part number ERR492. This is a result as that is more easily obtained than the Defender equivalent The second problem is the power steering. At first look I thought a bracket had been made to replace the standard missing Defender bracket but now I realise this looks like a Disco timing case then it appears someone has bodged the Disco bracket to get it in the Defender position? The power steering feed pipe has a hole in it. The end has a 90 degree return on it going into the bottom of the pump. Assuming that is a later 200tdi Defender pump then NRC9072 should fit? I have no idea why an extra pully is welded to the front of the pump (or why only 2 bolts holding it on!) Wondering if I strip this pump off and buy a Disco pump and flat adjuster plate to get it back to standard Disco, but concerned the feed pipe won't then fit? I love it when people bodge stuff like this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 I'm pretty sure I've got a spare disco 200 front end set , maybe a stat housing too . That is a "compromised" set up for sure , no tensioner for the crank to water pump either ? This combo of Defender manifolds/turbo and Disco timing belt housing has been posted here in the past , I think moving the alternator to the AC pump mounting area is one solution with the PAS mount and tensioning left standard . Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, steve b said: I'm pretty sure I've got a spare disco 200 front end set , maybe a stat housing too . That is a "compromised" set up for sure , no tensioner for the crank to water pump either ? This combo of Defender manifolds/turbo and Disco timing belt housing has been posted here in the past , I think moving the alternator to the AC pump mounting area is one solution with the PAS mount and tensioning left standard . Steve It is indeed a bodge! This is actually the Red 90 SW my mate bought off your mate. Nothing done to it since he had it and now passed to another mate of mine and I have been asked to help. Want to get it to a position where it is as 'standard' as it can be in terms of parts. PS pump in normal Disco position and alternator on compressor mount could be the way to go Knowing it was a genuine 200tdi from factory I did not suspect someone would have swapped a Disco engine until I looked closer. A pity they did not swap the timing casing over when they did the swap for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 The engine has the Discovery timing case and water pump but Defender alternator and PAS pump mounting and crank pulley. The Discovery has a single belt from the crank to the water and PAS pumps, and a double pulley on the PAS pump then drives a second belt for the alternator. But that double pulley is not like this one. I think someone got half way through mimicking the Discovery belt system and then went with plan B after making that pulley. My big concern would be the PAS/alternator bracket shearing the bolts to the block. It only has two into the block and a third laterally into the timing case, but with a mismatched timing case, they have made a very dodgy bracket out of a twisted steel strip which looks unlikely to be effective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, Snagger said: The engine has the Discovery timing case and water pump but Defender alternator and PAS pump mounting and crank pulley. The Discovery has a single belt from the crank to the water and PAS pumps, and a double pulley on the PAS pump then drives a second belt for the alternator. But that double pulley is not like this one. I think someone got half way through mimicking the Discovery belt system and then went with plan B after making that pulley. My big concern would be the PAS/alternator bracket shearing the bolts to the block. It only has two into the block and a third laterally into the timing case, but with a mismatched timing case, they have made a very dodgy bracket out of a twisted steel strip which looks unlikely to be effective. Looks like my options to do this properly are fairly limited? I think what Steve suggests is probably the only decent way to do it? Alternator - move to where the compressor sits using the kit from Gwyn Lewis. The kit is not too bad in price but after adding the air con tensioner and the 2 grove crank pully the price adds up. Looks like the pulley listed is different to the Defender one I have currently fitted? https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/product/200tdi-discovery-range-rover-classic-engine-twin-alternator-mount/ PS Pump - Move it back to the proper Disco position. I think the Disco cast aluminium bracket may well be still there. The front mounting plate I have looks to be from a Defender so that needs to be changed to suit. I am unsure of the pump type but the Disco and Defender parts are different so probably need to change that too. What PS pipe will then fit? I think the later Defender 200tdi pipe will be too short in this position. The standard Disco belt will then fit Picture of a standard Disco setup for reference 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Personally I'd convert it to a wholly discovery engine set up and use a Steve Parker exhaust down pipe. The defender parts are saleable, discovery parts are generally easier to get hold of. I had a similar set up in one of mine and there was always a problem somewhere. Our current 110 has a discovery engine in and it much nicer. The other thing to check is have the flywheel housing bolts (lower 4 iirc) been converted or just left out as I've seen on several. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkie Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 Or maybe cheaper in the long run if you could source a Discovery 200Tdi for a sensible price, rebuild it, keep yours as a spare and sell the Defender spec manifolds for a silly price on eBay to recover some of your cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 Thanks all. This is not mine but helping someone out, was originally thinking I was looking at changing a power steering pipe and maybe the ps pump but things are looking a lot more involved! Why do people bodge things instead of doing it properly? When that engine was changed it would have been less hassle to just swap the timing case than faff about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 ...I took the centre cap off a small after market steering wheel in a 88" a few years back and there was no nut........... On the same vehicle someone had bodged a rear ARB onto it mounted forward of the axle and underslung of the axle , mounted rear of the axle on the chassis ....no axle flex at all and restricted travel down affecting road use . Yes , I do wonder Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 17, 2022 Author Share Posted January 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, steve b said: ...I took the centre cap off a small after market steering wheel in a 88" a few years back and there was no nut........... The nut was sitting in the drivers seat! I think this sort of thing is what gives Land Rover a bad reputation. The bodging is not always that apparent until you take a closer look, then the more you look the worse it gets 😁🤦 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 That's the one I'm prepared to mention .... Got much worse since historic MOT status sadly and I'm sure not just Land Rovers . Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 The butchered hole is probably repairable. Can you put a pic up of the damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 9 hours ago, vulcan bomber said: The butchered hole is probably repairable. Can you put a pic up of the damage? Will do. Looks like a small part of the bolt is still in one side which may be able to be tapped round. The hole is now larger than it should be though. Helicoil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 18, 2022 Author Share Posted January 18, 2022 Thanks all for the thoughts Having spoken to the owner the immediate request is to just get things working with the current setup which in effect means a new PS pipe which I have ordered and a fix to the thermostat housing or replacement of it. I will see if there is anything I can do to pick up another mounting point at the front to prevent the PS/Alternator shearing the mount points at the back in the mean time. This should keep the PS/Alternator working. I will check the tension on the water pump belt as there is no way of tensioning that currently, given the fan is not fitted (has an electric one with an X Eng in line switch) then the force on this belt is not too high just powering the pump Once that is sorted we can decide on either moving the PS pump back to the disco position and alternator on the top left, or changing to Disco manifolds and putting it all back to Disco standard with a modified front pipe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 19 hours ago, L19MUD said: Looks like my options to do this properly are fairly limited? I think what Steve suggests is probably the only decent way to do it? Alternator - move to where the compressor sits using the kit from Gwyn Lewis. The kit is not too bad in price but after adding the air con tensioner and the 2 grove crank pully the price adds up. Looks like the pulley listed is different to the Defender one I have currently fitted? https://gwynlewis4x4.co.uk/product/200tdi-discovery-range-rover-classic-engine-twin-alternator-mount/ PS Pump - Move it back to the proper Disco position. I think the Disco cast aluminium bracket may well be still there. The front mounting plate I have looks to be from a Defender so that needs to be changed to suit. I am unsure of the pump type but the Disco and Defender parts are different so probably need to change that too. What PS pipe will then fit? I think the later Defender 200tdi pipe will be too short in this position. The standard Disco belt will then fit Picture of a standard Disco setup for reference I went another way, using a SIII alternator mount pushed forward and later refitting the (P38) PAS pump on a bracket on the timing case. I had to remove the Discovery method as it was to fit into my 109 and the Discovery arrangement blocks the path of the intercooler piping from the Defender manifolds and turbo (Discovery position fouls a 109 chassis). The alternator mounting method I used is pretty typical of Discovery engines in SIIs and IIis. The PAS was added later, but I am contemplating a swap of positions in the future to lift the alternator further from water. I suspect the owner used Defender manifolds and turbo because of the exhaust, and then found the same intercooler plumbing issues and bodged up those mountings and pulleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 20 hours ago, L19MUD said: I think this sort of thing is what gives Land Rover a bad reputation. The bodging is not always that apparent until you take a closer look, then the more you look the worse it gets 😁🤦 Had to change the oil seals on the rear hubs at the weekend - I was changine discs. Oil seals were on the wrong way round. Ive owned the vehicle since 2014 and it's never leaked oil.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Must have leaked out the diff as it was poured in! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 On 1/18/2022 at 9:30 AM, L19MUD said: Will do. Looks like a small part of the bolt is still in one side which may be able to be tapped round. The hole is now larger than it should be though. Helicoil? Sorry, I've not been on the forum, helicoil or preferably a Timesert if it's not excessively oversize. If it is then I could make up an insert to suit what's there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 9:41 PM, vulcan bomber said: Sorry, I've not been on the forum, helicoil or preferably a Timesert if it's not excessively oversize. If it is then I could make up an insert to suit what's there. I have taken it off and to be honest the damage is minor but with some of the bolt still in there. I have put it on the shelf for now though as someone gave me one to use. Thanks for the offer of assistance though. To update, after trying to find the right pipe to suit this bodged setup for the power steering pressure pipe and failing we have decided to bite the bullet and just sort it properly. I have just ordered all the parts for the second alternator mount from Gwyn Lewis and will then see what I have currently on the engine to go back to the Disco power steering setup which also solves the tensioner problem on the water pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Give me a call if you need anything as I've got the disco front end parts at back of workshop . Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonimouse Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 If you are really stuck, drop down and you can rob some bits off my spare engine - as long as they get replaced in the long term, I'm fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 21 minutes ago, Nonimouse said: If you are really stuck, drop down and you can rob some bits off my spare engine - as long as they get replaced in the long term, I'm fine Thanks. I have all the alternator side sorted. Steve has sorted the cast aluminium bracket for the PS pump. I think I now just need to find or make the flat plate the PS pump bolts too - if I am unsuccessful finding one (I think a Range Rover in the shed here has one) a template of yours could be handy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L19MUD Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 To close this out. I fitted the PS pump in the standard Disco location with a cut down standard bracket to remove the alternator mount which would foul the intercooler pipes The finished setup then looking like this. Much more robust than what was there before although it did cost a bit to put it right 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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