2002 Defender TD5 chassis - Keep or swap?

[mrodey]

I have a 2002 Defender TD5 which I just purchased to do a full paint and interior rebuild. It has about 180,000km on it. 

During my dismantling, I noticed increasing rust issues on the rear half of the chassis, mainly the crossmembers, some are flakes of steel peeling off the top, some steel swelling, shackles disintegrating, etc.. While there are not holes in the chassis, you can see some serious corrosion.

As I'm located in Sweden, finding someone to weld in patches would be cost prohibitive so either I keep as it is and hope for the best or since I have the car fully apart, buy a new Maer chassis from Poland and swap. Would love to hear some opinions based upon the photos (of course I'm showing the worst parts), does the rust look serious enough to warrant a chassis swap?  

Edited September 6, 2022 by mrodey

[landroversforever]

The rust either needs cutting out and sorting now, chassis replacement now, or chassis replacement further down the line. If you’ve got the cash now and the car is a longer term prospect, it’s a no brainer to me. 

[reb78]

Mines gone there - its 13 years older than yours though. As I was preparing for welding in repairs it became more and more apparent that the inside of that a frame cross member was a complete mess. 
 

I have a new Richards chassis and now need to find some time...

[Mossberg]

If you have the spare cash and the time then a galvanised chassis will significantly reduce issues around corrosion in the future and give you peace of mind - plus I would expect it to add value to your vehicle. 

I am currently doing repairs to my chassis and as I am doing the work myself I am keeping the costs to a minimum. So far I have replaced the tubular rear outriggers, remade my dumb irons and replaced one bulkhead outrigger. I am currently replacing the other bulkhead outrigger and the rear crossmember. I have been lucky enough to be given a rear crossmember, however if I was buying all the replacement parts it would be around £600+

That cost does not include labour and I am still only replacing steel with steel so does not have the protection of galvanising and I can expect corrosion on them in the future- the bulkhead outriggers and rear crossmember have been replaced before!!

If you do go for a new chassis then it is probably worth considering giving some of the other parts some care and attention too. If you are going to do this then look into electrolysis for rust removal. I have used it on quite a few things and it is now my preferred method for removing rust from anything I can fit in a 200ltr drum!

I have used it on my rear axle case (I replaced the original due to the brackets corroding), front radius arms, pan hard rod, swivel housings, hubs, brake shields plus lots of other little brackets etc. I will do my A frame and trailing arms when I come to do the bushes.

It takes a bit of time for the electrolysis then painting so now would be a good time to do it.

Good luck with your project. 

Mick

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mossberg

[toenden]

Okay I am a bit "in the other corner" 🙂

If those patches are the worst, then a thorough clean and aftertreatment, and annual touch ups, would give you alot of years of service still. I galvanised a chassis and bulkhead on my 90" back in 2005 ish, and I have never looked back BUT it is a lot of effort. When I redid my 110 from 1989 in 2010 I did not galvanise as it mainly lives on the tarmac. Now having put quite some plate in it before MOT this year, I find it annoying... -but mainly bacause I can se that the waxoil inside the chassis is great and the corrosion is from the outside where I have neglected the annual touchups... 🤥

My point being, if you have the money and time, then go for it (and considder the bulkhead aswell) if not then now all parts of the chassis is easy accessable and a god clean and treatment will give you many more years. 

/mads

[reb78]

59 minutes ago, toenden said:

Okay I am a bit "in the other corner" 🙂

If those patches are the worst, then a thorough clean and aftertreatment, and annual touch ups, would give you alot of years of service still. I galvanised a chassis and bulkhead on my 90" back in 2005 ish, and I have never looked back BUT it is a lot of effort. When I redid my 110 from 1989 in 2010 I did not galvanise as it mainly lives on the tarmac. Now having put quite some plate in it before MOT this year, I find it annoying... -but mainly bacause I can se that the waxoil inside the chassis is great and the corrosion is from the outside where I have neglected the annual touchups... 🤥

My point being, if you have the money and time, then go for it (and considder the bulkhead aswell) if not then now all parts of the chassis is easy accessable and a god clean and treatment will give you many more years. 

/mads

Its the inside of my a frame cross member that did it for me. Its like that on the outside but when cutting to patch, it became very clear that the inside was absolutely rotten. Given the pounding it takes as the back axle moves around I disnt fancy it coming loose. I think @Retroanaconda had some Pics of his showing the same  

[Anderzander]

For me - if you’ve got it stripped down that far - do it. 

[Sigi_H]

If you repair that chassis really good, it will not be for free anyway. Calculate this time and costs and you will see, you are not to far away from a new galvanized chassis.

For sure, working on a clean and new chassis is a lot easier and more satisfying than digging in dirty parts and discovering many new construction sites

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Sigi_H

[Mossberg]

Galvanised if you can...........

 

Looks better now though.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Mossberg

[Northwards]

Just a thought…

It’s hard to tell from the pictures if that’s just surface rust, or actual structural corrosion. I say that because a couple of years ago I bought a year 2000 P38 Range Rover. Once I’d had a chance to get underneath it I was pretty horrified and disappointed by the sight of all the rust. Particularly on the axles, but also parts on top of the chassis members. 
 

However, when I started tackling it I realised that what appeared to be terrible corrosion was just a thick layer of “blown” rust. I think I read somewhere that it takes 0.5mm of steel to creat a 5mm layer of rust… Structurally there’s been nothing that needed done at all once the layer of crumbly rust had been removed. 
 

So (as I’m sure you know) you’ll want to be sure it’s “proper” rust before spending too much money.

All of that said, my 1994 Defender is sitting on its 2nd galved chassis and a galved bulkhead. Horses for courses.

[Mossberg]

8 minutes ago, Northwards said:

 

All of that said, my 1994 Defender is sitting on its 2nd galved chassis and a galved bulkhead. Horses for courses.

Wow, you are on a second galv chassis on a 28 year old vehicle? May I ask what the lifespan of your different chassis has been as it would be interesting to see a comparison between the original and the galv.

I thought a galv chassis would have a 25 year (ish) lifespan which, with a bit of preventative maintenance, could be significantly increased.

My Defender is on its original chassis, though it is on its second set of replacement bulkhead outriggers (as you can see from my post), replaced the rear outriggers last year, and I am just about to fit a replacement rear crossmember which has already been replaced before.  I don't expect the chassis to last too much longer so your experience with galv chassis will be valuable.

Many thanks. 

Mick

[Arjan]

For what it is worth, I'm a bit ahead of you in this process.

I went for galvanizing, powdercoating and a new Maer bulkhead.

Axles are rebuild - rolling chassis awaits a slot in the workshop to get started on.

Money, time and personal needs decide what works for you - good luck !

 

[Northwards]

7 hours ago, Mossberg said:

Wow, you are on a second galv chassis on a 28 year old vehicle? May I ask what the lifespan of your different chassis has been as it would be interesting to see a comparison between the original and the galv.

I thought a galv chassis would have a 25 year (ish) lifespan which, with a bit of preventative maintenance, could be significantly increased.

 

Hi Mick, 

My car started life working as an airport fire brigade vehicle on an island off the west coast of Scotland. I'm pretty sure it was more or less permanently hitched to a rescue boat (I think it was airport regs). At some point I'm fairly convinced it was left in the sea as the tide came in. This wasn't obvious when I bought it of course, but the chassis was slowly corroding from the inside.  I wasn't able to do the job at that stage, but the guys who did said that once they got the car onto the ramps, the chassis just collapsed. I haven't got exact timelines but let's say this was at 9/10 years old. Obviously accelerated by the salt water use. 

2nd chassis - reputable make, but I'm fairly sure it was the apprentice's Friday afternoon job. A couple of years after I fitted it (but too long for any warranty) big flakes of galv. the size of dinner plates started coming off in the rear wheel arches, and it started to go around the fuel tank. It got to about 14/15 years before I changed it. This is still more or less my daily car - duties it shares with its 22 y/o P38 cousin - so I needed the job done. While I was also using the car to tow/launch a scuba RIB about, I was not dunking the car in the sea. But I do live in the nth of Scotland, and we see more than our fair share of salt on the roads.

3rd chassis - put on about 3 years ago - This time I had it dinitrolled from new (though I've seen arguments to/for putting anything onto a galv. chassis) and so far, so good. I'm going to get the dinitrol redone this autumn I think. 

Different 'reputable' makes for both galv. chassis - I think I know which is which, but I'd rather not post on an open forum as I'm only 90% sure I have it right. 

Interestingly the 22 y/o Range Rover is still very solid...

[Mossberg]

Well you have had some bad luck there. Let's hope that this current chassis gives you many years of service. 

[Northwards]

I hope so too! But when you even it all out over the last 22 years of ownership; and the predicted next 15-20 (touch wood), then it doesn't seem so bad and might even make some sort of sense.