Engine help, what would you do?

[GregK]

I have recently bought an 5mb engine 2.25 11H petrol out of early lr 110 which supposedly only have done 31k but it stood a while. Because of that I have decided to pull the engine to bits. On inspection it appears to be a low mileage engine. No wear to cylinder bores and honing marks are still visible. Big end and main bearings look good too. I will have to do the head as couple of valves are sticking plus as I'm at it will replace valve guide seals in fact all oil seals will get replaced.

Now to the question: 

As the engine is all apart anyway do I put in new main and big end bearings? [I'm tempted to do it as all is stripped anyway]

Do I Put new Piston Rings? [except I can not buy just the rings from Turners as they only sell piston and rings in one]

I will hone bores anyway so pistons will come out.

Timing chain replace as it's cheap? I have not removed the timing cover as yet so not sure on condition.

Also do I keep inlet and exhaust manifolds with twin choke weber carburettor or use series manifolds and carburettor which is brand new weber

Below are a couple of pics of main and big end bearings those are the only once I have removed so far.

[deep]

The one thing I would do is to get hardened valve seats fitted, so you can run unleaded petrol without an additive.  As for the rest of it, the very best thing is to get everything measured and inspected by an experienced engine reconditioner.  If components are barely worn, it's just a waste of money replacing them but you have to know what you are doing to make that call (impossible from a photo!).  Everything you hone or grind is removing service life from the motor, so that sort of thing should be done very sparingly.  New seals and gaskets are obvious, new timing chain is probably a good idea and I'd look hard at the frost plugs too as they could well be corroded.  Actually, I'd be looking hard for pitting on wear surfaces as a motor that sits and gets any moisture near it can get very light pitting, which destroys components surprisingly quickly.

[Bowie69]

Basically as above, except why are you thinking of honing?

I'd get the head sorted, new seals and slap it back together.

[smallfry]

I would just put it all back together. Those bearings look new, more or less. I would not even bother to change the rings if they are as good as that.

If Turners will not sell just piston rings, don't buy there. If you must change them, plenty of places that do. Stick to a well known brand AE, Grant, Goetz. Same with gaskets and seals.

Its not a racing car. How much will you actually use it ? At the end of the day, its your decision and money !

[GregK]

Thank you all for replies. 

@deep Good call on the hardened valve seats. I have done few engine rebuilds so measurements are no problem but I haven't bothered as there is no visible wear plus I've only just started stripping it 

31 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

except why are you thinking of honing?

 As  I'm pulling the pistons to check if rings are free and clean or replace them I thought may as well do a quick pass with a honing tool.

31 minutes ago, smallfry said:

If Turners will not sell just piston rings, don't buy there. If you must change them, plenty of places that do. Stick to a well known brand AE, Grant, Goetz. Same with gaskets and seals.

Apparently AE is no Longer available. I haven't looked anywhere else for replacement rings but will most probably remove clean and check if the rings are not seized in the pistons from standing, measure and refit. 

Rezone I have asked above questions is that as much as I will replace some parts like seals I was not sure if to replace parts that are good with 30k on them with replacement parts that might be of lesser quality than original.

Edited November 13, 2022 by GregK
correction

[GregK]

36 minutes ago, smallfry said:

Its not a racing car. How much will you actually use it ? 

If to go by last couple of years than 300-400 miles a year. In all fairness it will get used a little more once new engine goes in.

[Bowie69]

The rings and cylinders are already matched, if there is existing honing still showing you would gain nothing.

[GregK]

4 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

The rings and cylinders are already matched, if there is existing honing still showing you would gain nothing.

 Yes there is existing honing marks still showing. You are right that rings are already matched to cylinders so nothing gained if I keep existing rings. I just never registered that. 

[steve b]

Just clean it and put it together, as said above, it all looks as new. 

The Valves and seats will already be unleaded friendly being an early 110. 

As for manifolds/carb, it's your choice, both work well. 

Steve

[GregK]

Ok  I will finish striping it down then clean and inspect for damage/wear and if all well put it all together re-using original parts and replacing what's necessary.  Yet again thank you all for pointing me in right direction. 

Greg 

[Bowie69]

You touch on something there.... I'd rather leave slightly worn original parts in that replace with modern stuff of unknown quality.

 

[Gazzar]

8 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

You touch on something there.... I'd rather leave slightly worn original parts in that replace with modern stuff of unknown quality.

 

Agreed, quality hasn't improved, unfortunately.

[dra890]

DIdn’t the last 2.25s (the ones in coilsprung landrovers) have hardened valve seats already fitted? I’m sure I remember hearing that the last of the 2.25s were suited for unleaded?

 

[deep]

21 hours ago, steve b said:

 

The Valves and seats will already be unleaded friendly being an early 110. 

 

Steve

Good to know.  We weren't pushed into unleaded until the mid 90s but other parts of the Land Rover world must have had to face that much earlier!

[steve b]

I've just checked and it was in fact 1988 so it may well need attention. 

At the annual mileage you think you will do, it will last years I'd suggest.

Steve

[smallfry]

11 hours ago, Gazzar said:

Agreed, quality hasn't improved, unfortunately.

Indeed. This is the problem with any "older" vehicle mechanical work nowadays. Once the vehicle falls off of the radar of mainstream OE manufacturers, we are left with items from variable quality suppliers, the quality generally varying downwards. I dont see this situation ever improving either.

Take Turner Engineering as an example, exemplary as their machining and processes may be, they too are left at the mercy of lower quality parts, which will affect their reputation ultimately.

[GregK]

4 hours ago, steve b said:

I've just checked and it was in fact 1988 so it may well need attention. 

At the annual mileage you think you will do, it will last years I'd suggest.

Steve

When I remove the valves I will  look if hardened valve seats have been fitted.

If not I will not worry about it too much as I do very low mileage, plus I don't mind chucking some lead additive.

My existing engine in a shorty is a 5mb so worst case I could replace seats in that head and fit it at later stage.

 

 

[Gazzar]

11 hours ago, smallfry said:

Indeed. This is the problem with any "older" vehicle mechanical work nowadays. Once the vehicle falls off of the radar of mainstream OE manufacturers, we are left with items from variable quality suppliers, the quality generally varying downwards. I dont see this situation ever improving either.

Take Turner Engineering as an example, exemplary as their machining and processes may be, they too are left at the mercy of lower quality parts, which will affect their reputation ultimately.

And JLR don't believe that investing in their heritage is worthwhile, which is a shame, and I believe, short sighted.

[deep]

21 hours ago, GregK said:

When I remove the valves I will  look if hardened valve seats have been fitted.

If not I will not worry about it too much as I do very low mileage, plus I don't mind chucking some lead additive.

 

 

 

Exactly what I do with my Series 3.  It's not that hard to do, nor that expensive for a low mileage vehicle.  I remember my friend used to visit in his Series 2.  Each time, you could hear the valves chuffing that little bit more, so I'm wary of the issue!  I'm doing the same with the Fergie tractor I have on long-term loan.  Taking the head off is so low in the scale or priorities that I can't see it ever happening and the additive allows the procrastination.

[Bigj66]

If it’s been sat for a while with water in it then it could be worth checking the condition of the core plugs and changing any dodgy looking ones whilst you have good access to the block.

[GregK]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:46 AM, Bigj66 said:

If it’s been sat for a while with water in it then it could be worth checking the condition of the core plugs and changing any dodgy looking ones whilst you have good access to the block.

Yes it  has stood for a while but out of vehicle. But evidence of some water left in it. All core plugs look like new from outside no way of telling what they look like on inside without  removing them.[maybe a time to buy myself a bore scope as a Christmas prezzie] On another hand water pump had quiet a bit of rust on impeller [so new pump is being fitted]  I also flushed some loose rust from engine so as core plug set is less than £30.00 from Turners I might just get them fitted.

An update to earlier posts: 

I've removed rest of big ends and main bearings they all looked as good as new bar one half of big end bearing had a scratch down middle of it that could be felt with a nail so I have ordered a new set of big ends. [looks like maybe some damage from standing]

Crankshaft undamaged but I will give it a quick polish where big-end /conrod bearing had a scratch plus blowout  oil galleries with brake cleaner and air just in case there is some dirt that caused the small damage to big end.

I have also removed  pistons  and rings , all good and with a little clean  can go back in.

Timing chain appears  in good condition. I haven't had a chance to measure it yet but looking at it tensioner is on a second click so right at start of adjustment.

Removed valves as couple were sticking:  all were a little coked up so quick decoke, lap valves, fit new valve stem seals and head is done. No evidence of hardened valve seats fitted so still a leaded head.

 

 

[Gazzar]

Sounds good. Did you check the cam lobes for wear?

[GregK]

On 12/7/2022 at 6:53 AM, Gazzar said:

Sounds good. Did you check the cam lobes for wear?

Not had a chance as of yet. Hopefully I'll get some time on it this weekend.

[Gazzar]

It all takes time. One of the lobes on my 2.5 was worn by 5mm.

[GregK]

Ouch 5mm that's a lot must have been starved of oil. 

I'm more lucky had a look at mine  and no damage to cam lobes.

But I will have to buy new water pump as the one I have will not fit this engine. As 2 or 3 bolt holes are out by about half a hole. So looks like 11H 2.25 out of 90 has slightly different timing chain cover to s3 5mb and I believe correct water pump for this engine is STC636.  Odd why LR did that.