Defender 110/130 Salisbury Axle Identification

[blz6662]

Hi Guys,

I don't normally post in this section as I don't have a defender, although I have most of the others! oh dear too many toys!

Anyway I picked up this Salisbury last week advertised as suitable for a 110/130 TD5.

I'm in the process of giving it a good work out and convert to sit underneath my 2A Essex V6 powered SWB.

The problem is I'm not 100% if it is from a TD5. Before I buy any new bits I need to know if it is a TD5 or 300tdi.

The question is what is the difference between them as Bolt on Bits are selling an axle kit, drive flanges, halfshafts, gaskets etc. Advertised as 1 kit for the TD5 and another listing for the 300tdi.

I have asked them the question but no response yet.

The axle has a common number on the casting which looks like 18H6, but the tag is well too rusty.

Can any of you guys tell from the pics if this is a TD5 axle.

Apologies if I have posted this in the wrong place

Cheers

 

Baden 

[western]

Both have the same final drive ratio & disc brakes, the axle serial number on the rear of the longer axle tube just above the horizontal weldline may give an idea of 300Tdi ot Td5. 

[Retroanaconda]

I don’t think there’s any different between a 300Tdi and an early Td5 Salisbury is there? I know the brake pads got thicker at some stage so the calipers were presumably wider to accommodate that, but I’m not aware of any of the axle bits changing.

Around 2004/2005 they changed to the Rover short-nose axle instead. 

[western]

I know there are 2 rear pads types & different rear discs, found that out during my drum to disc conversion. I used 110 solid front disc that have a deeper bell centre so pads are a bit thinner, 

[miketomcat]

I thought td5 had welded on caliper brackets but I'm not sure, 300tdi were definitely bolted on.

Mike

[western]

Yes later axles have the caliper brackets as part of the axle end flange, I think some of the last 300tdi were to. 

[miketomcat]

12 hours ago, western said:

Yes later axles have the caliper brackets as part of the axle end flange, I think some of the last 300tdi were to. 

Thanks for confirming Ralph. In that case the op has a 300tdi axle as I can see the caliper bracket is bolted on.

Mike

[blz6662]

Thanks guys,

Mystery over, bolted on caliper brackets. I did clean the axle tube up this morning with a gentle abrasive mini disc but nothing appeared in the ways of any numbers.

I'll post a pic later.

 

Cheers

 

Baden 

[western]

On 300tdi the serial. Numbers are made up from lots of stamped in dots which form each digit. 

[uninformed]

On 3/25/2023 at 5:09 AM, miketomcat said:

I thought td5 had welded on caliper brackets but I'm not sure, 300tdi were definitely bolted on.

Mike

Yep, Rover housing style flange, and they had the spigot for ABS. They also require the matching Rover style stub axle (male spigot as opposed to the flanged original type) 

[blz6662]

Just thought I'd add some pics for reference.

Hub had quite a drop of water in it so defo new bearings required to the parts list. What's your thoughts on the stub condition?

Replace or clean up?

Cheers

Baden

[Snagger]

Those stub axles are knackered.  Definitely due for replacement.

[western]

As above, I would replace the stubs & bearings. 

[blz6662]

Hi Guys,

I was having a good day at the workshop BUT I've just finished cleaning up all the old welds to make this a viable transplant into my Series 2A V6 powered SWB!!!!!

Having measured up for the spring saddles I've now noticed the position of the offside saddle sits on the cast diff unit (omg what a k**b I am).

Can I ask is there anyone else out there as stupid as me to try this upgrade to gain disc brakes -not thinking the extra offset of the diff due to the A Frame!

If there is a polite answer please enlighten me.

This might end up on my Hybrid (not electric) 100" range rover/2A.

Your most humble

Baden   

[hurbie]

a picture off the problem would help ....

[Paul C]

The 109 has wider spring mounts on the rear than the 88 so it isn't so much a problem but I do remember the 109 Salisbury spring mount is close to the cast center housing. This 110 axle will also be quite a bit wider than your standard axle, are you changing your front axle too?

I would have thought a Rover type axle would be plenty strong enough for you, and much easier to work with,  it is also shorter in the nose so won't be as much a problem for the propshaft.

The Essex I wouldn't think would be that much more powerful than a turbo diesel, lots of series down under had Ford or Gm 6cyl engines fitted to them. 

You now are making me wonder how hard it would be to fit the stubs and hubs from a coiler to a leaf sprung axle?

[Snagger]

The bump stop positions are the same on 88, 109, 90 and 110.  The spring saddles are outboard on a 109 rear, but under the chassis on and 88 (under the chassis on the front of both models).  You need to fit 109 spring hangers to accommodate the further offset diff.  This will also involve using the 109 damper configuration.

[blz6662]

Thanks Snagger,

That was what I was thinking as the only way out. Anyone know if it's been done before?

I've currently got a 109 Salisbury on the 88" truck with shortened prop and works fine, but the main reason for the change is to get the 3.54 ratio, plus the disc brakes.

Anyway, I have decided to abort this mission and fit front and rear axles I have spare from a pre-ABS Range Rover Classic.

This Salisbury will get all new coil spring brackets welded back on and go onto my 100" hybrid once it has eaten the current 10 spline diff.

Some pics added for errr info and reference so nobody else makes the same mistake.

Lastly does anyone know a company that could perhaps change out the CWP for a 3.54 set-up in my current 109 Salisbury?

Cheers All

Baden

[Snagger]

Baden, you can swap the 109 and 110 diff and pinion over and be 95+% confident that the shims will already be correct.  You can’t send the diff away for fitting, obviously, and most garages seem to be irrationally scared of Salisbury diffs.

You’ll need to chock the wheels and remove the rear prop shaft (at least at the diff end).  With a 3/4” breaker bar and socket (I can’t remember the size), undo the pinion flange nut.  Drain the diff oil and then remove the diff cover, half shafts and pinion drive flange.

If you can borrow the axle spreader tool (either stretches the aperture laterally, locating in the holes either side of the aperture, or squeezes the aperture vertically to push the sides out a couple of thousandths of an inch), then it does make life easier, but if you don’t have access to one, you can still get the diff out of each axle with pry bars.  Just have something under the diff that is fitted to the car so that it doesn’t drop onto you or the floor.

Mark the bearing caps that secure the diff in the housing to make sure they will later go back on the same side and with the same way up.  Use a punch or chisel to make small markings as pen markings will probably come off.  Then undo the four bolts securing the caps, followed by the caps themselves.  Then pull the diff out of the casing.

Once it is clear, remove the pinion from the inside of the housing.  You’ll need to remove the pinion oil seal in the nose to remove the forward bearing and crush tube.  This will destroy the seal, so you will need a replacement before you start.

Reassembly is just the reverse process.  However, make sure that shims inside the casing behind the pinion aft bearing outer race aren’t damaged or altered if you replace the bearings (you really ought to swap the outer races from one axle to the other, assuming you don’t swap the bearing on the pinion over).  Those shims are to allow for casing tolerances and must stay with that casing.  You can fit the other pinion with the old shims and even reuse the crush tube that came from that axle.  Once the front bearing is installed, you can fit the new seal, the flange and the nut.

The diffs get swapped directly without removing the bearings or shims.  Make sure you transfer the outer races to keep them matched with the inner races.  You can fit the diff straight to the casing without the spreader with a bit of effort, but you will need to align the outer races a bit more carefully and will need to tap them into their seats with a mallet and sturdy wooden or blunt copper/aluminium drift.  Once they are all the way in, fit the bearing caps in exactly the orientation they came out and torque up the bolts.

refit the half shafts, and with someone standing on the brake pedal, tighten the pinion nut to 150-200 foot-pounds.  Now remove the half shafts and run a contact pattern check with Prussian blue or another compound to double spec neck the mesh is correct (it is not quite guarantees to be, but it’s highly likely).  If that is good, refit the half shafts and back cover (new gasket needed) and refill.

Remember that your speedo will be out by a significant amount and should be recalibrated.

[blz6662]

Hi Snagger,

That's really good info, I'll have to rethink my projects now armed with that knowledge. I've been reading your website and great work mate. Lots of great articles, help and useful features, keep it up.

At the moment I'm about 75% there with a series 3 SWB Station Wagon rebuild which I am trying to stay focused on and get it finished, but my forlorn looking series 2A keeps looking at me saying 'what about me'.

Anyway, thanks again for that.

Kind regards to All

Baden

Just for interest, a few of pics of my Hybrid.