muzaz Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 I bought a 1988 nintey earlier this year from a retired farmer who owned it for the previous 30 years. Knowing it has not been messed around with and still having all its original running gear I'm giving it a once over for any obvious damage or areas requiring attention. So this week it was inspection time for the transfer case input gear, fingers crossed! First thing I noticed was it looks like the cover plate had never been taken off. Plate off, things not looking good - brown looking cooked rusty grease coming out of the gear bore. Unfortunately, on closer inspection of the splines, it appears to be shot 😕. Same applies to the gearbox mainshaft...even worse as that's a gearbox overhaul! I'm tempted to buy a used LT77 but the condition will be unknown so I'm leaning towards the rebuild. I'v never opened one before, but following some good write ups over here and some videos on YouTube I'm seriously considering doing it myself 😮 What is the general consensus about this gearbox, is it something one should attempt? I'm not a professional mechanic, but I manage...😎 Mainshaft Input gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 Gearbox splines aren't great but they'll live a while longer, I'd throw a cross-drilled input gear in and run it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Eightpot Posted May 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) I have on a couple of occasions, where the gearbox has been otherwise fine, built the mainshaft splines back up in situ using a mig welder, and grinding and filing till a new input gear will just slide back over. Boring days work but cheaper than a rebuild. It's been surprisingly successful, particularly with the slightly longer cross drilled input gears which sit on a bit of unworn spline. Did one last year and still 100% despite driving all round europe and down to mauritania and back, giving it a jolly good thrashing. Edited May 19, 2023 by Eightpot 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted May 19, 2023 Author Share Posted May 19, 2023 18 minutes ago, Eightpot said: I have on a couple of occasions, where the gearbox has been otherwise fine, built the mainshaft splines back up in situ using a mig welder, and grinding and filing till a new input gear will just slide back over. Boring days work but cheaper than a rebuild. It's been surprisingly successful, particularly with the slightly longer cross drilled input gears which sit on a bit of unworn spline. Did one last year and still 100% despite driving all round europe and down to mauritania and back, giving it a jolly good thrashing. That's a good idea! I might give that a try, nothing to loose. Got a mill I could mount the gearbox on to make life easier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightpot Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 It pays to get the bead just right so you dont have much metal to file back and only do one spline at a time, or you end up in a hell of a mess trying to figure where the high spots are! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 (edited) Cool idea and wonderful job. I had the "clonk of death" 15 years ago and bought a refurbished LT77. My car didn't have the crossdrilled gear in the LT230 either. I never expected, that TD4 could suffer the same problem again 😃 Keep in mind to give the mainshaft a propper earth in order not to have current flowing over roller bearings. Edited May 19, 2023 by Sigi_H Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 1, 2023 Author Share Posted June 1, 2023 Took the engine and gearbox out this week. On draining the gearbox oil found some metal particles on the magnetic plug. In the photo they look like a lot, however when I wiped it off, the particles were very fine more like sludge rather than grit. Is it normal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebus Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 On 5/19/2023 at 12:23 PM, Eightpot said: I have on a couple of occasions, where the gearbox has been otherwise fine, built the mainshaft splines back up in situ using a mig welder, and grinding and filing till a new input gear will just slide back over. Boring days work but cheaper than a rebuild. It's been surprisingly successful, particularly with the slightly longer cross drilled input gears which sit on a bit of unworn spline. Did one last year and still 100% despite driving all round europe and down to mauritania and back, giving it a jolly good thrashing. Clever f@cker you, your nowhere near Kent are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigi_H Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 10 hours ago, muzaz said: Took the engine and gearbox out this week. On draining the gearbox oil found some metal particles on the magnetic plug. In the photo they look like a lot, however when I wiped it off, the particles were very fine more like sludge rather than grit. Is it normal? Yes, it is normal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazza Posted June 2, 2023 Share Posted June 2, 2023 On 5/19/2023 at 12:23 PM, Eightpot said: I have on a couple of occasions, where the gearbox has been otherwise fine, built the mainshaft splines back up in situ using a mig welder, and grinding and filing till a new input gear will just slide back over. I've also done this with good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green200tdi Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 On 6/2/2023 at 10:42 AM, Hazza said: I've also done this with good results. My 110 is in bits and watching a video last night on YouTube britanica restorations Mike was showing this very thing so guess what I had a look at mine as the car is in bits see pics now my dad owned this 110 since 2005 it’s a 86 vehicle taken this long to wear I guess 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 8, 2023 Author Share Posted June 8, 2023 I'm going for a gearbix rebuild. Had the splines not been so worn out I would have attempted to build them up with welding, but they are too worn and I'm afraid I'll end up warping the whole thing or spend an eternity filing away at the splines! Seen the videos by Mike from Brittania, not so difficult to do I think so I'm having a go at it. First issue I found was the mainshaft collar, was not coming off easy. So I copied the puller and it came off nicely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 The later LT230s have a cross-drilled input gear that means oil can get to the splines on the input shaft and reduce wear a lot. I have one, fully refurbed, in the for sale section by co-incidence. But even if you just rebuild yours, but the drilled gear from Ashcrofts or wherever - it's a cheap fix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green200tdi Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 48 minutes ago, muzaz said: I'm going for a gearbix rebuild. Had the splines not been so worn out I would have attempted to build them up with welding, but they are too worn and I'm afraid I'll end up warping the whole thing or spend an eternity filing away at the splines! Seen the videos by Mike from Brittania, not so difficult to do I think so I'm having a go at it. First issue I found was the mainshaft collar, was not coming off easy. So I copied the puller and it came off nicely... Any idea how this comes out the transfer box? the input of transfer box im sure that’s where the output of gear box goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 9, 2023 Author Share Posted June 9, 2023 4 hours ago, Green200tdi said: Any idea how this comes out the transfer box? the input of transfer box im sure that’s where the output of gear box goes. Clean the gasket, you should find two csk Phillips bolts on the flange face. Then get a thin wedge and tap it between the transfer box and flange and it should separate. The input gear should then slide off. If it does not, lift a wheel off the ground and turn the prop shaft while pulling at the input gear...should them come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green200tdi Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 13 hours ago, muzaz said: Clean the gasket, you should find two csk Phillips bolts on the flange face. Then get a thin wedge and tap it between the transfer box and flange and it should separate. The input gear should then slide off. If it does not, lift a wheel off the ground and turn the prop shaft while pulling at the input gear...should them come off. Will lift wheel but don’t think that will help.😂😂 thank you for your help 👍😊 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 11, 2023 Author Share Posted June 11, 2023 Progressing with the gearbox rebuild. Not too much time today but managed to take the case apart and had a look inside. At first impression it looks in good condition, no damaged gears. Will have a closer look when I take them apart. Noticed some blue paint on the casing and also on one of the gears, does it mean anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junglie Posted June 11, 2023 Share Posted June 11, 2023 2 hours ago, muzaz said: ...Noticed some blue paint on the casing and also on one of the gears, does it mean anything? At some point your gearbox has eaten a smurf? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 12, 2023 Author Share Posted June 12, 2023 Took the rest of the gearbox apart this morning and had a closer look at the gears and synchros. The springs on the baulk rings are worn so I'll replace those. The baulk rings came with the kit so I'll replace them. Also found the selector shaft a bit worn where the fork shuttle collar slides. Does anyone know the part nos for the springs and the shaft? I bought the kit from Ashcroft but the parts I need are not on their shop. Gearbox is suffix E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 13, 2023 Author Share Posted June 13, 2023 Sorted, found the springs but will stick on to the selector shaft...otherwise this box will be getting too expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Ok so now I have the gearbox assembled and checked the endfloat on the mainshaft and layshaft, the play is excessive! 🤔 I was under the impression that it should have come quite near to what it was before I took it apart. Before taking it apart it had no play at all. The existing shims are 2.11mm on the mainshaft and 2.05 on the layshaft. Work I've done to it is the bearings and synchro rings replaced along with the mainshaft. Is it normal to install thicker shims than the ones mentioned above? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 have you measured the endfloat ? on my rebuilt i found multiple time's that exchanging bearings (same make and factory) , does change endfloat or preload . it seems bearings are not so hi-tech as i used to think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 Not yet, I plan to do that tomorrow morning. I assembled it with the original shims and gave it a quick check, but could feel the input shaft rocking in the housing. The kit I used is from Ashcroft, bearings are like the originals Timken, made in France tho not England. Thinking about it, it could also be difference in thickness of the gaskets, and I used rtv on them so could be that made matters worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurbie Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 yep , gasket's could wel be the culprit ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzaz Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 Had an early start this morning, so measured the endfloat and got these readings: 0.566mm for the mainshaft and 0.390mm for the layshaft. Took the readings with the old shims installed at the bearing housing so the actual endfloat is 0.566+2.110 = 2.676mm for the mainshaft and 1.99+0.39 = 2.38mm for the layshaft. Now I need to find the shims I'll need! 🫣 If not mistaken I should get 0mm endfloat or preload for the mainshaft and 0.012mm preload or endfloat for the layshaft. Is this correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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