Snagger Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Hi all. Several years ago I bought a used Dana 60 4.1 gear set to go into the 109 as 3.54 were horrible and broke the gear box but the standard 4.71 are a bit low and reach, using more fuel and causing more noise on A roads and motorways than necessary. I haven’t got access to a Salisbury gear set down here, but Tim (Peaklander) just sent me photos with the critical dimensions of the tail end of the pinion and they are significantly different. So, my question is, do you think the tail of the pinion can be machined to fit the standard bearings and case for a Salisbury? I am thinking of having the coarse area between the bearings turned down to the bearing seat area of the Salisbury and a collar made up to support the bearing where it overhangs the thinner machined section. For the drive flange, perhaps either another thick collar of same diameter as the drive flange plain section to sit where the seal land area of the drive flange sits, with the drive flange set further forward and a shorter prop, or having the splines cut longer and the end of the shaft turned and a thread cut to completely match the Salisbury dimensions. I prefer the latter, so that standard seals, bearings, drive flange and prop can be retained, but don’t know how bad the spline wear might be on unhardened steel. I have no idea of the costs of the work, if it’s even possible, but I haven’t seen many alternatives as nobody seems to sell 4.1 Salisbury gears since KAM closed, and they cost about a grand when I looked at their site well over a decade ago. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 The machining for the outer bearing needs approximately 6mm diameter removing from a 23mm length to match the Sals profile, and a 3mm diameter for about 5mm length increase to support that bearing inner race at the drive flange. I don’t have Salisbury spline dimensions to compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 The pinion appears by comparison of the photos to be too long. Sorting the bearings as above is simple, but this is the tricky bit I’m uncertain about. I think the splined section will protrude too far out of the casing, and the drive flange won’t press-up against the bearing inner race either. A collar could be made (blue sketching behind the green area cut for the bearing seat) to fit around the shaft and run against the seal with the drive flanges used further back, but this puts loadings on the bearings like the spacers sometimes seen between prop shaft yolks and drive flanges where a prop shaft is too short. I don’t know how much of an issue that could be. Alternatively, once the dimensions are known, the pinion could be turned to cut down the length of the splined section and turn new threads for the flange nut into the core of where the splines were removed. The splines may need extending toward the gear head, though. This all assumes the spline diameters match those on the Salisbury (this pinion is 10-spline, like LR used). I don’t have those Salisbury measurements either. This is the part that concerns me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmmv Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Or, just as an alternative, if originality isn't important, maybe a Dana 60 axle could be made to fit, the bracketry is readily available, and props can be made to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 The problem is finding a Dana axle of the right length and then modifying it to suit the LR brakes, stubs and hubs in addition to the suspension (leaf springs). I think modifying the pinion would be easier, if it’s viable technically and economically. As I said, getting the bearing to fit is easy enough for a machinist. The drive flange and overall length is my worry. I do have the Dana drive flange, so it might be possible to graft that to the flat part of a Salisbury flange if the splines differ, or to use the Dana flange if the LR spec UJ fits it and I can get some suitable U-bolts for the bearing cups (what a horrible system!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 @Snagger if you read from page 13 to page 16 of my mog 404 axle thread ( diff shortening episode, compliments of @Daan......lol page 11 is where I cut 5" out of the centre of the diff case ) you will be able to see that I had to do similar to my 404 diffs, so yes it can be done and yes I could assist you to get it done it your happy to let me, providing it doesn't need doing by next week ...lol Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Yes it can be done, it'll be very hard on the outside so it's going to cost a few quid in tooling to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Is it possible to re harden freshly cut splines? There seems little point in going to all the trouble if the pinion will wear its splines out quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Stellaghost said: @Snagger if you read from page 13 to page 16 of my mog 404 axle thread ( diff shortening episode, compliments of @Daan......lol page 11 is where I cut 5" out of the centre of the diff case ) you will be able to see that I had to do similar to my 404 diffs, so yes it can be done and yes I could assist you to get it done it your happy to let me, providing it doesn't need doing by next week ...lol Regards Stephen I’ll take a look. Thanks. 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 2 minutes ago, Snagger said: Is it possible to re harden freshly cut splines? There seems little point in going to all the trouble if the pinion will wear its splines out quickly. I would say yes, I didn't because the pinion shaft was so bloody hard anyway Regards Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Good to know. Any wear since? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Just now, Snagger said: Good to know. Any wear since? Not as yet, but then it's only done 2 days at summer sisters.....lol I would expect any wear to be in drive flange as that seems entirely normal mild steel...which I'm happy with as would be easier to make a new flange than a diff pinion Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulcan bomber Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 4 hours ago, Snagger said: Is it possible to re harden freshly cut splines? There seems little point in going to all the trouble if the pinion will wear its splines out quickly. You would need to know the material spec and the process(s) it would go through. It could be case hard, nitrided etc .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Would it be an option to check with D60 aftermarket gear manufacturers (Yukon and such) if they can just cut you a custom pinion before it gets sent out for heat treating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 This is almost getting to the point of ordering up a custom D60 from the states with a fully built gearset inside it - it's very common to just gives specs for the centre and width, tubes etc and they just make one for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 22 hours ago, Stellaghost said: @Snagger if you read from page 13 to page 16 of my mog 404 axle thread ( diff shortening episode, compliments of @Daan......lol page 11 is where I cut 5" out of the centre of the diff case ) you will be able to see that I had to do similar to my 404 diffs, so yes it can be done and yes I could assist you to get it done it your happy to let me, providing it doesn't need doing by next week ...lol Regards Stephen All my fault... Snagger, did you try to find the part numbers of the correct Dana 60 bearings and see if that would fit to the salisbury casing? And if you look for a 4130 pinion flange bolted flange, such a thing does exist I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Daan said: .. Snagger, did you try to find the part numbers of the correct Dana 60 bearings and see if that would fit to the salisbury casing? And if you look for a 4130 pinion flange bolted flange, such a thing does exist I believe. Not yet, but the diameter of the thick part of the pinion shaft is the same on my Dana as Tim’s Salisbury, so it looks like the inner bearing (against the pinion head) is the same. If it’s not, it’s close and should be easy to turn down a mite to fit the Sals spec bearing. As I said, the outer bearing near the drive flange is different, having a smaller internal diameter than on a Salisbury and sitting further apart than on the Salisbury too, hence the need for turning part of the rough section down to move the bearing closer and the filler collar to support the outer end of that bearing where it would sit over a 5mm section of the too small diameter turned section for the Dana bearing. If I do return to the UK this summer, as planned, then I’ll be having to rent until next January before I can move back into my house, so I won’t likely have the facilities to strip this thing down and test fit the pinion (maybe without the outer bearing) and the ring gear attached to my ATB for a basic check to see if the pinion reworking is worthwhile - I need to check that the Dana ring gear is going to fit first, otherwise the work on the pinion would be a waste. But if I do have the facilities, then maybe I could do it later this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I recorded this short video just before I put the Salisbury pinion in for the last time. It's just in case the markings are useful. Salisbury pinion markings.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 Thanks, @Peaklander. @Stellaghost, Stephen, I looked through that thread (hadn’t looked before because I know nothing about portals beyond basic principles). Wow. You’re nuts, but in a very, very good way! 😂. If you are willing to have a go at the pinion for me, then I dare say I could cross your palm with a little silver. I’ll try to check the ring gear for sensible fit first, and perhaps fit a bearing to the pinion head and make sure it all fits the casing without the second bearing first otherwise it could be a lot of wasted effort, but at least this all looks encouraging. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Snagger said: Thanks, @Peaklander. @Stellaghost, Stephen, I looked through that thread (hadn’t looked before because I know nothing about portals beyond basic principles). Wow. You’re nuts, but in a very, very good way! 😂. If you are willing to have a go at the pinion for me, then I dare say I could cross your palm with a little silver. I’ll try to check the ring gear for sensible fit first, and perhaps fit a bearing to the pinion head and make sure it all fits the casing without the second bearing first otherwise it could be a lot of wasted effort, but at least this all looks encouraging. Let me know when your sorted, no fee required Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted March 5 Author Share Posted March 5 That is very kind, but I would want to reward such skills, time and kind offer anyway. It’ll be later in the year (I hope - still got to get a new job), but I’ll be in touch.🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaghost Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Snagger said: It’ll be later in the year (I hope - still got to get a new job), but I’ll be in touch.🙂 Ok not a problem Regards Stephen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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