dollythelw Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 discuss disco 2 owners that have battered thier suspension - what failures/issues have you noticed? anything particularly prone to wear other than the conical chassis end bushings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Later Bowler Wildcats have a Watts linkage but I'm not sure thats much of a recommendation. Would 4 link be better with FO girt big tyres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Jez, what would the Watt's linkage be on? Hockey stick type radius arms? 3 - link system? Single link system like a Mog / saley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 9, 2007 Author Share Posted February 9, 2007 hybrid hockey sticks Will are you saying my tyres look big in this Steve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br00n1e Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 If its anything like comparing the size of feet to....................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Later Bowler Wildcats have a Watts linkage but I'm not sure thats much of a recommendation.Would 4 link be better with FO girt big tyres? Please forgive me, im having a blonde moment, whats a Watts linkage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warthog Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Please forgive me, im having a blonde moment, whats a Watts linkage? This may help? http://www.tsmmfg.com/Watts_Linkage.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 This may help?http://www.tsmmfg.com/Watts_Linkage.htm Ta very much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 are you saying my tyres look big in this Steve? I only a have passing knowledge of these things but did consider both for my Range Rover. IIRC you're looking to use more speed on your events. My conclusion was Yanks, who use big tyres, seem to favour 4 link for speed events. This could be because it's best or beacause they don't understand a Watts linkage I suspect the Watts linkage requires better design to be effective and this would be particularly evident at speed. If it's not spot on I think you'll find it would do unpredicatable things at speed in the rough, especially with your (cars) significant unsprung weight. Unfortuantely most suspension gurus I have spoken to/read articles are dealing with less than 4" of travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jules Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Steve is right, Watt linkage stops the ars end kicking at speed and easyer to control landings at speed but aparently eats bushes so I was told when I asked about fitting D2 axles to the Tomcat which is why I didn't bother in the end. I'm just fitting a anard rod and hocky sticks on the back. We may still fit the watts linkage as the parts are not that dear new but the D2 rear arms are out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 its a teaser, I cant see a huge prob in getting a watts to work providing the relationship between the arc of the side bars and the diameter of the centre pivot is consistant. Ive got a friend desert racing beam axles in the US - I'll ask him why they dont use watts (he's on 4 link), as you said Steve it might be a lack of exposure/understanding to them over there? a reliable 10" of compression would be handy and I think that may prove a prob as the side arms would have to be on the long side.. hmm, more thinking/coffee/fags/sleep needed.. Panhard and hockeys is simple Jules - well proven and reliable, Im just looking for alternatives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 I think its the best way to control side forces, the 4 link, especially with longer arms is less than ideal for this. Also roll centre of watts linkage is obvious and predictable on every position of axle. Also, packaging will be much easyer. In my opinion 3 link + wats is more desirable than 4 link. Whether the disco 2 parts are prone to wear is a different matter, but Bowler is using the disco pivot on the dakar cars. The links are custom My future project will potentially feature this, whenever this is (ever?). Currently I use radiusarms with panhard, which I am very happy with. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 4 link plus watts would be really easy to package Daan - handy for bush life increase and controlling wrap thoughts? could do away with that pesky crossmember then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 4 link plus wats would be overconstrained, you could offset the toplink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 you think Bind would be an issue? I can see that with 5 link, but a bush and heim combo served on family sized platter of Watts linkage with a side order of optimised watts crank should negate the panhard arc bind of a 5 link? or have I now overdosed on coffee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 you might get away with it if you have them equal length and exactly parallel from side view and top view. otherwise, you could always leave one out... Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 parallel would give no antisquat though - it would hop like a bunny on acid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 2 leaf fronts, 3 leaf rears. Running like f....... :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 half timbered hurse driver... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Thinks on this some more I suspect our trans Atlantic friends may be using 4 link due to the amount of travel they have. Would a Watts start to lose the plot at 30"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 possibly - it would depend on the size of the bellcrank and the length of the side arms, there would be a theoretical maximum travel in relation to the longest side arms you could find a home for I guess... if that would be reached before the bellcrank ran out of articulation or not needs some input from the magic crayon and abacus. Now I can see why the septics like 4 link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwindsurf Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 With the watts system would you get into an issue with the fact that the watts needs to be central but the drive shaft is not, would they act against each other encouraging movement on the short side reducing it on the longer side? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOA 93 Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Can I throw some more logs on the fire, what about a 'woblink' does the same as watts linkage but I think it has better packaging, especially with the offset diff of a Land Rover. Originally designed to keep the roll centre very low ie. ground level but can be turned upside down etc the links would then be up out of harms way and you can dial the roll centre in any where you like. I've built a mock up in MDF down the garage I can take a photo later if require, just type woblink into Google. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 Andy that would be appreciated - I'll have a scoot round google, Mark - I can put the diff anywhere in the axle, so no probs with torque reaction, the alternative would be a torque tube system a la PanzerUnimog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Thinks on this some more I suspect our trans Atlantic friends may be using 4 link due to the amount of travel they have. Would a Watts start to lose the plot at 30"? I dont think its a major issue as long as bump and droop are equally distributed. just run a drooplimiter in the centre of the axle and you solved the problem, while maintaining loads of articulation With the watts system would you get into an issue with the fact that the watts needs to be central but the drive shaft is not, would they act against each other encouraging movement on the short side reducing it on the longer side?Mark Shouldn't make a difference, a torque is a torque, regardless were you aply it on the axle Can I throw some more logs on the fire, what about a 'woblink' does the same as watts linkage but I think it has better packaging, especially with the offset diff of a Land Rover. Originally designed to keep the roll centre very low ie. ground level but can be turned upside down etc the links would then be up out of harms way and you can dial the roll centre in any where you like. I've built a mock up in MDF down the garage I can take a photo later if require, just type woblink into Google.Andy I wouldn't consider that one, because realy a lower rollcentre in combination with soft springs would make the car very unstable on side slopes. turning upside down? maybe but at that stage packaging becomes interesting to say the least. Anyway, show us your mock up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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