crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 12 hours ago, landroversforever said: Manual or auto? its a manual box i have in out of a 300 disco not sure what was in the original v8 but i only have the front axel in and the disco rear and something is just not rite wont pull i thing something is getting wound up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 10 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said: @crewcab 110 said he'd put a Disco 300 engine + box in, if he swapped the transfer box as well that would make it 1.2:1 ratio where the original would be 1.4:1 so a bit more lively off the mark (well, a fair bit more lively with a V8 too), if it's pulling bigger tyres than a Disco (and most Defenders are) that won't help either. That said, a 300TDi in a 90 should be able to get out of its own way. I'm not so sure about his claim to have put a Disco axle under the back of a 110 as the 110 should have a Salisbury back axle, a Disco one isn't rated for the weight and surely the propshaft wouldn't meet up due to the diff pinion length difference there's something odd here. i used the correct length prop instead of the shorter one for the salisbury axel so i can use the disco rear axel its all i had at the time so i used it when i was building my landy,the gearbox was switched straight out of an old disco along with a minter engine the problem i am having its not pulling very well and i am thinking the v8 front axel which was original in when i bought the motor is the issue does this help a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 So are you using the Disco transfer box or the Defender one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: So are you using the Disco transfer box or the Defender one? i am using everything disco apart from the front axel which is a v8 axel military one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, crewcab 110 said: i used the correct length prop instead of the shorter one for the salisbury axel so i can use the disco rear axel its all i had at the time so i used it when i was building my landy,the gearbox was switched straight out of an old disco along with a minter engine the problem i am having its not pulling very well and i am thinking the v8 front axel which was original in when i bought the motor is the issue does this help a bit There isn’t a correct prop unless you’ve had a custom one made? The disco diff is longer than the post 02 rear axle but shorter than the original Salisbury. I cant see your location on my phone, but roughly where abouts are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 You’ve not got the high/low linkage together wrong have you? Just thinking if it’s really revvy it could be in low when you think it’s high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 44 minutes ago, landroversforever said: There isn’t a correct prop unless you’ve had a custom one made? The disco diff is longer than the post 02 rear axle but shorter than the original Salisbury. I cant see your location on my phone, but roughly where abouts are you? i have the prop on the landy and working fine no custom prop just standard you can get defenders without salisbury axel at the back i know this as i have a td5 without Salisbury axel and that uses a standard prop too the issue isnt props the issue is will is the v8 front diff no good to work with a discovery engine box and rear diff as it just dont seem rite if this is the case i will pull it out and stick a td5 one in i also still have the disco front could simply swap the guts over if need be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, landroversforever said: You’ve not got the high/low linkage together wrong have you? Just thinking if it’s really revvy it could be in low when you think it’s high? no linkage is correct hi and low work fine it just feels like something is holding me back engine is as fit as a fiddle has a boost pin in too,am gonna take the front prop off to see if that fixes the issue if it does will pull v8 one off and stick it on ebay as they must be rare thing to get hold of and this one is in good condition so are discs and calipers were blasted and painted in 2k off the axel too lot of work went into it but if its got to go its got to go lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, crewcab 110 said: i have the prop on the landy and working fine no custom prop just standard you can get defenders without salisbury axel at the back i know this as i have a td5 without Salisbury axel and that uses a standard prop too the issue isnt props the issue is will is the v8 front diff no good to work with a discovery engine box and rear diff as it just dont seem rite if this is the case i will pull it out and stick a td5 one in i also still have the disco front could simply swap the guts over if need be That's not the right propshaft though. They had the salisbury and then the P38 type, It is known as the short nose diff. So there is not a standard propshaft that will fit properly. The one you have will be running the risk of bottoming out. As it's longer than the P38/late 110 type, but shorter than the salisbury. So it's another issue on top of the Discovery axle not being rated for the 110 rear axle weight. VOSA etc would not take kindly to it if you have an accident. The front diff can't be the issue here. As said above, it's the same ratio across all coil sprung Land Rovers up to the D2 and P38 Range Rover. Have you had the engine apart at all? Not timed correctly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, crewcab 110 said: i am using everything disco apart from the front axel which is a v8 axel military one Just seen this response.... If you've got the Disco transferbox with the higher ratio, and Defender sized tyres they its going to feel sluggish compared to when it was in the Disco. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 I get ya thanks for your help and no ain't had it apart it's on large fat wheels and tyres think they are 33inch wheels rear prop looks fine front one does not it looks well compressed I read somwere the v8 landy front was a diffrent ratio so thought I would come on here and ask before I start farting about with it was gonna just pull front prop off for now to test it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, landroversforever said: That's not the right propshaft though. They had the salisbury and then the P38 type, It is known as the short nose diff. So there is not a standard propshaft that will fit properly. The one you have will be running the risk of bottoming out. As it's longer than the P38/late 110 type, but shorter than the salisbury. So it's another issue on top of the Discovery axle not being rated for the 110 rear axle weight. VOSA etc would not take kindly to it if you have an accident. The front diff can't be the issue here. As said above, it's the same ratio across all coil sprung Land Rovers up to the D2 and P38 Range Rover. Have you had the engine apart at all? Not timed correctly? Forgot to mention engine not been apart I drove it into my place many years ago had injectors out cleaned them as they were manky too and chucking loads of smoke when boost came in sorted that now this engine ain't been on the road for about five years, to be honest a good run on motorway might do it the world of good blow out all the carp and soot were it's been ticking over and not going anywere will figure it out eventually I guess I have some td5 axels now might swap them out as I had to work with what I had at the time as ive been building this for years it's the one in my profile pic cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 OK the short version is ALL coiler diffs should be 3.54:1 ratio unless someone has swapped them with a Series diff or a custom ratio. The factory V8's sometimes had 4-pin centres which were stronger, but the crownwheel & pinion ratio remained the same. 33's and a Disco transfer box is really not going to help your gearing - you can use Ashcroft's ratio calculator and/or eTyres tyre size calcutor to see how far out you've thrown it VS a Disco on small tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, crewcab 110 said: I get ya thanks for your help and no ain't had it apart it's on large fat wheels and tyres think they are 33inch wheels rear prop looks fine front one does not it looks well compressed I read somwere the v8 landy front was a diffrent ratio so thought I would come on here and ask before I start farting about with it was gonna just pull front prop off for now to test it There is your problem. That, coupled with the Disco transfer box is going to make for a pretty horrible drive, sluggish and needing to be revved to get or keep it moving. The rear prop might look OK when its at rest, but get the suspension moving and you'll start binding up which will eventually take out the pinion bearings in the diff or the output bearing on the LT230. Are you in the UK? If so, I would be taking the Disco axle off, whilst in practice it would probably be fine, it's not worth having the book thrown at you if it all goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Yes in the uk I do have a defender r380 box laying about could take the transfer box off that that would prob solve the gearing issue I also have a td5 one too an r380 one but I think the defender one maybe the way to go the axels that are on have all been shot blasted painted etc landy ain't gonna be going off road or towing anything I have a td5 double cable for that sort of thing lol so not arsed about vosa ive ran hybrid vehicles for years never ever been dipped or stopped by vosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Defender transfer box will solve the issue. Still a tiny bit over geared compared to a bog standard 300tdi disco but it works nicely. Doesn't matter if it's going offroad or not towing, or just running empty all the time, if something goes wrong and they start poking around you'll be wanting the KY . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Defender transfer box will solve the issue. Still a tiny bit over geared compared to a bog standard 300tdi disco but it works nicely. Doesn't matter if it's going offroad or not towing, or just running empty all the time, if something goes wrong and they start poking around you'll be wanting the KY . lol i dont get worried that easily pmsl i might get five mins to pull it out as ive done everything outside as dont have a garage and try not to leave anything laying around when working outside as the local smack rats will have it away ,my drive is on a slope so it would mean my whole drive would be out of action when i do it so will have to get some good weather before i go rolling around under landy cheers for all your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Long nose and short nose axles and diffs on 110 are rated differently to carrying capacity. Props are totally different lengths so yes Ross is right saying the prop length is wrong. On 33s gearing is pretty much over the line for 3.54 ratios . Prob a 3.8 maybe a 4m1 to correct. So loads of areas are questionable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, Hybrid_From_Hell said: Long nose and short nose axles and diffs on 110 are rated differently to carrying capacity. Props are totally different lengths so yes Ross is right saying the prop length is wrong. On 33s gearing is pretty much over the line for 3.54 ratios . Prob a 3.8 maybe a 4m1 to correct. So loads of areas are questionable i get ya i have a mix and match of all sorts on this landy so just trying to cobble it all together i have another prop that is the correct length to work with salisbury axel i have which i purchased a while ago after i had done all the work on the disco one and put it all in blasted painted etc so i was reluctant to change it you have totally lost me with all this ratio stuff everyone saying prop length is wrong how much of the spline should be showing on the prop at rest ? i will go and take pictures and put them on here as to me it looks rite ,but you guys know what you are talking about and this is my first ground up nut and bolt build. Edited February 27, 2019 by crewcab 110 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 these are the pics of prop and diff any advice would be welcomed if prop is wrong what length would i need as i am sure this one is off a 110 diff not a Salisbury i have another one but i think its shorter and that one is off a Salisbury axel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 A post-mid-TD5 prop would be much more in the ballpark, I would think? they have a short nose P38 style diff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 If only there was a thread dedicated to propshaft lengths... @crewcab 110 I'd say your prop looks too compressed sitting normally, when you go over a bump it's going to bottom out and try to poke the diff pinion and transfer box bearings through their housings and knacker them in short order. People are telling you this stuff because they want to help, not to criticize your build! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crewcab 110 Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 21 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: If only there was a thread dedicated to propshaft lengths... @crewcab 110 I'd say your prop looks too compressed sitting normally, when you go over a bump it's going to bottom out and try to poke the diff pinion and transfer box bearings through their housings and knacker them in short order. People are telling you this stuff because they want to help, not to criticize your build! 21 minutes ago, FridgeFreezer said: If only there was a thread dedicated to propshaft lengths... @crewcab 110 I'd say your prop looks too compressed sitting normally, when you go over a bump it's going to bottom out and try to poke the diff pinion and transfer box bearings through their housings and knacker them in short order. People are telling you this stuff because they want to help, not to criticize your build! yes and i know thank you for all the help ,had my digger out went and collected an axel from my pile measured it and its shorter than disco one got a Salisbury there too but saving that for another build so i am now gonna dig out the engine crane hang it from that and set about cleaning all the rust and carp off it get it stripped paint it and pull the disco axel out of my landy then i will change transfer box too from a disco one to a landy one hopefully this will work and i am now covered in dog **** as my wheels were covered in it after going across a field at the back of my house to test it and i was leaning on the wheels oh the joys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Bowie69 said: A post-mid-TD5 prop would be much more in the ballpark, I would think? they have a short nose P38 style diff. They do, but the P38 diff is about 2" shorter than a normal Disco/Defender one, hence the propshaft looking rather too long (compressed) above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cackshifter Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 This is a subject that I have had to get interested in as I am gathering parts for an axle swap. Compressed length of the FT4198 (rear 110 with Rover short nose diff) is approx 120cm. Compressed length of the FTC3905 (rear 110 with Sals diff) is approx 107cm. (Lengths gleaned from Google not measured directly). There is a place near me that will alter propshaft length and rebalance for less than the price of a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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