Should I swap from 90 to 110?

[alantd]

I currently have a 90 CSW. Fantastic beast - I absolutely love it and fully intended to keep it until the end of time or until it was unrepairable (probably the end of time, then).

Since then, alan jnr has arrived. Also fantastic - I fully intend to keep him until the end of me.

The problem, then, is that an increasing family and a 90 don't really mix. I can only see one solution - swap to a 110 CSW (that I can keep until the end of time or...).

My question, therefore, is: In giving up my 90 for a 110, what do I need to be aware of?

I know the turning circle of the 110 is worse but is it really that bad?

Am I going to lose significant fuel efficiency (TD5)?

Does a 110 take forever to warm up in the morning?

Is there any appreciable loss of stiffness in the extra length?

Is a 110 worse in any appreciable way?

All thoughts (biased or objective) appreciated.

Alan

[FridgeFreezer]

Since everything is the same mechanically (assuming same model/year), there are no great issues between the two. A 110 is longer but, as you've discovered, there's naff all space in a 90 whereas a 110 can hold lots of people and more stuff than you'd believe.

Obviously a 110 weighs fractionally more so will be slightly slower, has a slightly poorer breakover & departure angles, and is harder to manouever through very tight spaces. These are all very slight differences though - unless you're doing winch challenges a 110 will be able to follow a 90 through almost anything, and for every bit the 110 can't get through, there will be another scenario where a 110 will get and a 90 can't.

Regarding stiffness the 110 chassis is deeper to compensate for the length. The 110 will ride better than the 90 too.

May I be the first to say congratulations on choosing a superior wheelbase

[JSG]

I know the turning circle of the 110 is worse but is it really that bad?

No, you get used to it and after a while you don't notice it, you just drive accordingly.

Am I going to lose significant fuel efficiency (TD5)?

No, from what I've seen the difference is negligible.

Does a 110 take forever to warm up in the morning?

No although the heat takes more time to reach the rear seats the front is just the same as a 90.

Is there any appreciable loss of stiffness in the extra length?

Not noticed any.

Is a 110 worse in any appreciable way?

No - it is better as a family car - just the turning circle is worse.

[gruntus]

Hi Alan,

A little bit away from your questions so I apologise if it is off the mark

I don't know if it was the layout of the seats that put you off (facing inwards and hence unsafe for child seats).

But if it was a contributing factor have you thought about buying a forward facing rear seat?

Cheers

g

[ibexman]

Ive had 4 90s i always thought 110s were barges , i now have 2007 110 doublecab much better ride quality bags of space seats 5 comfortable camping gear in the back great car????

[Happyoldgit]

I've had a number of both and usually end up going back to the longer one (oooh er missus).

[western]

Never owned a 90, but driven a few & compared to my 110 the 90 is too choppy a ride for me, I prefer the 110 for it's ride.

[Aragorn]

i think the 90 ride is choppy due (at least partially) to its spring rates, it has very soft front springs and very stiff rears as standard (180lb/225lb) whereas the 110 has front rates around 210lb and the rears are progressive so in normal driving are also around the 210-225lb area

The difference means the 110 is smoother (it will also be firmer) due to the more sensible spring rates, the 90 really should have much stiffer fronts especially as most of the weight is over the front axle in an unloaded model

i recon 225 front and 200ish rear on a 90 would give a much more compliant ride

Sorry for the OT but it is sort of relevant

[MRWOO]

I had the same argument, what to do about the 90 situation after the family grew from just the 2 of us to 4. The wife tried to get me to buy a 110 and considered it hard but I ddn't want to drive around in a vehicle any bigger than what I already had for 95% of the time while I commuted to work. The times when we were all in it there was naff no room for anything else, prams were always a bugger to get in never mind the dog aswell. So, when I used to have my 300Tdi i bought a nice trailer for when we went away and for all others time's it was just fine. Since the 300 my main consideration for buying a new 90 was becuase of the new forward facing rear seats which are much safer for kids, I did fit forward facing ones to the 300 but I never trusted them they were far to flimsy in comparision to the LR ones.

Here's the old girl, I still miss it now....

[SteveG]

i recon 225 front and 200ish rear on a 90 would give a much more compliant ride

Sorry for the OT but it is sort of relevant

I'm running 225 LR springs all round and ride is still choppy on a bumpy road compared to my 110. No amount of spring adjustment will compensate for the longer wheelbase in this respect.

We just have to face it that size does matter.

90's are fun to chuck around on road and good for parking. They are great off road in tight spaces and at times when the better angles matter, but frankly unless you are competing or spend all your off road time at a play days this is not often enough to justify a 90 over a 110. If you need the space, the decision is easy - it's a 110.

Currently running two TD5's a 90 and 110 and I would say that you will not notice difference in mpg. It will take longer to warm up in winter, cool down in summer. It will feel more sluggish when loaded up with the family. As said above the turning circle is awful.

The 110, is shorter than most modern estates, it's narrow width is an advantage on road and for parking, so it certainly doesn't feel like a barge. It's just that turning circle that let's it down in my opinion.

Cheers

Steve

[jjojjas]

If we look at this the other way around.......

I have 4 kids, the eldest two are never in the 110 with us now, so just me, wife, two toddlers.

I have a 110 with 7 forward facing seats, and I thought about swapping to a 90 with 4 facing seats.

When I add it all up, there is no actual benefit to change to a 90 other than its shorter... and length isn't an issue

Jas

[Happyoldgit]

I know the turning circle of the 110 is worse but is it really that bad? No you quickly adapt.

Am I going to lose significant fuel efficiency (TD5)? Not really.

Does a 110 take forever to warm up in the morning? A little longer perhaps but all the TD5's (90's & 110's) I've owned have been slow to reach normal temperature anyway.

Is there any appreciable loss of stiffness in the extra length? No.

Is a 110 worse in any appreciable way? Not sure I understand the question but I suppose if you are talking about CSW's then you have two more doors and sideframes which can rot to worry about.

[Spooner]

I know the turning circle of the 110 is worse but is it really that bad? No you quickly adapt.

Am I going to lose significant fuel efficiency (TD5)? Not really.

Does a 110 take forever to warm up in the morning? A little longer perhaps but all the TD5's (90's & 110's) I've owned have been slow to reach normal temperature anyway.

Is there any appreciable loss of stiffness in the extra length? No.

Is a 110 worse in any appreciable way? Not sure I understand the question but I suppose if you are talking about CSW's then you have two more doors and sideframes which can rot to worry about.

I've just gone from a 1989 90 200tdi to a 1998 300tdi 110 csw due to similiar reasons your thinking of - We've just gone from 2 adults/one 3 year old to 2 adults/one 3 year old and a 4 month old. The 90 was great for hacking around in but I'm well pleased with the 110. Nicer ride and the turning circle I just got used to a drove accordingly. I could'nt justify the time/space/expense of keeping both but if I could of....welll...

[Gromit]

Never driven a 90, but, as has been said by everyone else, the only thing that really lets a 110 down is the turning circle.

Not a problem normally, you just swing more into tighter corners.

Where I notice this most is reversing into a parallel parking spot. Where as a normal car (and presumably a 90) can reverse in at an acute angle and then swing the nose in, the 110 has to take much a shallower angle in and then manoeuver the nose in. Just practice really.

Can't be beaten really though for the space/people you can carry, plus you've the option of a longer roof rack.

I keep meaning to check, is the loadspace in a CSW 110 exactly the same as a 90?

[FridgeFreezer]

I keep meaning to check, is the loadspace in a CSW 110 exactly the same as a 90?

No, the rear body is longer than a 90 (hence more overhang).

[Happyoldgit]

No, the rear body is longer than a 90 (hence more overhang).

With the second row seats folded the 110 CSW loadspace is obviously substantially larger but with the seats up there is not much in it - in fact with a genuine loadspace / dog guard fitted it is a bit smaller.

[alantd]

Thanks for this guys. It definitely sounds like a 110 is the right solution.

I like the idea of the trailer but it would still mean my wife would be travelling sidesaddle to Wales - not very comfortable.

I investigated the bolt-in forward facing rear seats but the took up all the luggage space (they nearly touch the rear doors when erected) so all luggage would be relegated to the roof.

As I type this, my young son is kicking away next to me. I think he approves.

Thanks again.

[Gromit]

With the second row seats folded the 110 CSW loadspace is obviously substantially larger but with the seats up there is not much in it - in fact with a genuine loadspace / dog guard fitted it is a bit smaller.

Yeah, I meant the back of a 90 compared to the back of a 110, from the back of the 2nd row seats to the rear door.