SiWhite Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 I'm going to start building a hydraulic tank for the 90 soon. It's going in the space where the heater was so it's going to be an odd non-square shape. What does it need? I've got as far as it needing a filler cap, an inlet and outlet port, maybe a dipstick thingy and a hydraulic filter. Anyone think of anything else? Swirl camber? Baffles? If so, how would I be best advised to design and build them? Will it need internal corrosion protection, or will the oil bouncing around do the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 wassitfor Si? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Capacity could be an issue in that location , there isn't much volume in something the size of a heaterbox/fan assy. It might need a 3rd fitting for the leak-off return depending on what you are running.Mine has baffles but its 7 gallon. I've also got a magnet inside to catch any metal particles that shouldn't be there .My filter is an in line 1" feed in and out. so wossit for then ? mmm hydro B) cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 If you think frothing is going to be an issue, try to angle the inlet port so that incoming fluid runs onto the inside surface of the tank - if you have any curved surfaces, I'd do it so it comes in at the start of that surface as tangential to the curve as is reasonably possible. Cheers, Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 you get some wonderful turbulance at high flows if you do that Al think Si needs to tell us if its a steering system, winch system or full hydro in-cab rotating cake stand and what kind of flow rate and pressure the system is running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Damm, I was hoping to keep the hydro cake stand quiet.... It's for my new milemarker. I've been told the pump is good for 47 l/min, but I'm not sure of exact specs - as soon as I can sneak away from decorating duties I'll have a look. It's going to be crank driven, but in the AC slot with double 13mm belts driving it from the crank. I had hoped to run a propshaft from the crank to the pump, but I'll see if the belts perform first. I'm following BullBarCowboy's writeup - I'm planning on 1" feed from tank to pump, I've lined up a 1/2" 70l/min spool block to be safe. The rest'll be in 1/2" with probably 3/4" return to the tank. Sound ok? Capacity wise, I was aiming for 20 litres of fluid. I like the magnet idea - keep them coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astro_Al Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 you get some wonderful turbulance at high flows if you do that Al Well, I dunno about the specifics of the application, but it'll stop the fluid aerating/frothing, which can't be bad. Whats wrong with turbulence? I'd do as decribed - you can always add a baffle or 3 if you want to prevent too much swirl. It'll also help with fluid cooling / heat transfer via the tank skin. Just thinking out loud, I may be wrong... Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 3/4 single wire hose will deliver plenty between the tank and the pump and be easier to house, 1/2" will be groovey for the rest, 1/4 or 1/8th for a pressure guage if you want one (well worth it IMO) - if you can use a triple belt then do it - twin belt systems slip (the Merc systems fry belts when they get a chance) why do you want the tank where the heater was? (being nosey) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan kemp Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Capacity wise, I was aiming for 20 litres of fluid. My tank is 15 litres and never gets so hot it cannot be touched, the Type R winches on my truck have had some serious abuse!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 IIRC my investigation into tank sizes showed that industrial applications normally used tank that were 2 to 3 times the max flow ………………….. however, in our intermittent application the tank capacity needs to be about 50% of the max flow …………. So you should be able to use a tank of 20 – 25L. My tank is a commercial 33L as I could not have fabbed it for that sort of money. Baffled would be good, but not necessary ……………. However the baffling would need to be significant due to the high flow rate. My tank is not baffled and the outlet is in the bottom centre ………….. as the tank is always over ¾ full (and allowance is made for expansion), in order to open the outlet to fresh air, I would need to be almost inverted…………..and if that’s the case then the winch will be low on my ‘worry agenda’. Also, don’t forger to include a return filter ………………. I know of a challenge disco that has a belt driven pump which is much the same capacity as yours …………….. belt slip when dry is a big problem on high load and high flow…………. When the belts are wet the problem is worse. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 To aid heat dissipation: Thin plate sides are better than thick plate (also applies to the paint finish). Tall, vertical sides are better than squat. And for the same volume narrow rectangular, will have a greater surface area to dissipate heat than a square or cylindrical shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Great stuff, we're getting there I think! why do you want the tank where the heater was? (being nosey) It's somewhere higher than the pump mounted on the AC slot. I'm moving the heater into the cab to try and keep SWMBO warm so there's going to be nothing there anyway. I wanted everything close together to try and keep the cost down and aid simple hose routing. 3/4 single wire hose will deliver plenty between the tank and the pump and be easier to house, 1/2" will be groovey for the rest, 1/4 or 1/8th for a pressure guage if you want one (well worth it IMO) Good stuff, I was dreading routing 1" about the place. Pressure guage is on the list. if you can use a triple belt then do it - twin belt systems slip (the Merc systems fry belts when they get a chance) Poo. I know of a challenge disco that has a belt driven pump which is much the same capacity as yours …………….. belt slip when dry is a big problem on high load and high flow…………. When the belts are wet the problem is worse. Double poo. I was hoping to run a prop from the crank nose straight to the pump, but figured it'd be a nightmare running the magnetic clutch with the prop. Would a toothed belt improve the situation? I HATE slipping belts..... My tank is 15 litres and never gets so hot it cannot be touched, the Type R winches on my truck have had some serious abuse!! So you should be able to use a tank of 20 – 25L Good, so 20 litres is a good figure to aim for. So it seems I've got the tank specs sorted - but the issue seems to be driving the pump. Double belt's out - if someone else has doubts, I've got doubts. So it's either a toothed belt, the flailing chains of death or a propshaft from the crank nose (PTO's out as I want to retain drive assist - I know I shouldn't need it for winching but it'll save taking the transfer box in and out of drive every two minutes). Any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollythelw Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Saleys the man to talk to about the crank prop - it was a Rakeway jobby, looks like a really good solution but Im not keen on the length issue. toothed belts have a really low tolerance to misalignment (from memory its 0.25 degrees angular or radial) so in practicality its gonna be a prob dealing with that kind of tolerance. flailing chains of death according to the experts will kill you, your neighbours and several neighbouring counties. seem to do ok on all the race bikes Ive had, even those nasty nitrous and blown ones but I'll defer to thier wisdom. a dog clutch means you dont have the magnetic clutch hook up issue - or you could use a CP16 with clutch pack 1 (might be 2 ? going from memory here sorry) which has an SAE flange to bolt a propshaft to. You could also look at a misalignment drive - looks like a cush drive from a chain drive bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 An Odd shaped tank will be a piggy to fab up and hyd oil means it will find the smallest of pin holes ! What are you making it out of ? Re the tank design itself, the Superwinch unit is very clever and you could do worse than copy into yours some of the ideas : A baffle, seperating a little bit in incoming hot / frothy oil from the outlet size cooler and calmed down A Filter on the output (Low pressure) to the pump I swirl pot in the exit side where the pump sucks up from, this way it always has access to oil evebn at extreme angles A Drain plug in the base Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I have a superwinch tank here - bolts up under the seat. Unfortunately it's with an H14W and all the plumbing, whole setup is for sale though ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bush65 Posted October 2, 2007 Share Posted October 2, 2007 ...Pressure guage is on the list... I don't like the idea of high pressure hyd lines inside the cab, even to a pressure gauge. Don't under estimate how dangerous hyd leaks can be to you health/life. For this reason I use a pressure transducer and digital indicator of pressure. More expensive, but what price do you put on your health, or having limbs amputated and being unable to work again, or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pugwash Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 this made me sit up and think http://www.wmmic.com/Safety%20Shorts/Hydraulic%20Safety.ppt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 this made me sit up and think http://www.wmmic.com/Safety%20Shorts/Hydraulic%20Safety.ppt The local Hyphose have a picture on their desk of what happens when your hand gets in the way of a few thousand PSI of oil, nearly puts me off my coffee every time I'm in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thats a bad way to go. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiWhite Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Horrid stuff SWMBO saw the link that Jim posted and tried to convince me to keep the 8274! I'm going to have the pressure guage still, but not one that involves high pressure lines on my side of the bulkhead. I'm pretty confident about using a bowden cable to remote operate the spool valve from inside the cab, so no lines should be within about 3 feet of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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