ronnie_rotten Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Greetings, this is my first post, so expect lots of advice! I'm 99% sure the rod has punched through the fork inside the bell housing. Judging by the posts I've read this morning it's the only diagnosis. Clutch pedal is completely jammed at the top. I can drive it crash gearbox syle, but only going up the gears! I havn't separated the gearbox from the engine before and don't intend to do it again for a while if I can avoid it! So, while I'm crawling around in the unmentionable, what else do I tie in to the job? Sounds like a reinforced fork would be a wise move, rather than standard, and probably a clutch kit? Is there ANYTHING else I can overhaul/change while I'm about it to save that "Hmm, you should have done doodah to the wachamecallit" conversation at a later date. Also, any advise on this job wiould be appreciated as I'm doing it on my own with fairly minimal tools and no workshop facilities. Any input greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Change everything i.e. clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing, fork, the pivot ball if it shows any sign of wear, and any of the oil seals if there is any sign of a leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 If you are worried about the same thing happening again especially if you do a lot of town driving you can weld a large washer to the back of the new clutch fork. We have often found that the average clutch/brake place will make a mess of changing LR clutches and they NEVER change the fork on a 300tdi. And as they are not used to the weight of LR gearboxes they often stuff up the main box by hanging the gearboxes on the main shaft. Get your clutch done at a reputable LR garage. (Not a stealer, of course) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted December 4, 2007 Author Share Posted December 4, 2007 Change everything i.e. clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing, fork, the pivot ball if it shows any sign of wear, and any of the oil seals if there is any sign of a leak. Hmm. That's kinda what i thought, but i probably would have neglected the pivot ball. which oil seals are we talking about? is the rear crank seal accesable this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrfarmer Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Change everything i.e. clutch plate, pressure plate, release bearing, fork, the pivot ball if it shows any sign of wear, and any of the oil seals if there is any sign of a leak. If you are worried about the same thing happening again especially if you do a lot of town driving you can weld a large washer to the back of the new clutch fork. i would use a bit of 1/4" flat steel instead of a washer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Rear Main oil seal if 300TDI and gearbox mainshaft seal and Get a Les Henson Fork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 (Not a stealer, of course) I believe the modern expression is "whatever". Time for a title change... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 If the clutch pedal is solid and there's just a creaking sound, then the fork has punched though. As Tony says - crank rear seal and gearbox seal. I supply reinforced clutch forks - all money from the sale goes to support this website. Borg & Beck clutch kits are excellent quality - I fit them 100% of the time. You can fit a 130 Heavy Duty clutch plate if you do a lot of towing or playing in the mud. If you don't know the history of the slave cylider, then it might be worth replacing with a genuine item - the majority of after-market slave cylinders are poor quality. If you choose to slide the gearbox back without dropping it on the ground or removing the engine, then this thread is the method I use - http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=5010 Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 To assist in replacing a gearbox get a length of threaded rod (someone help with the thread size, I've forgotten again!) from B&Q and make two long studs. Screw these into the back of the engine & engage two of the gearbox bellhousing bolt holes on them. Makes lining things up easy & reduces the risk of the sideways slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 someone help with the thread size, I've forgotten again Tut! - M10 - coarse thread Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 I believe the modern expression is "whatever".Time for a title change... so are you a 'whatever'? If I called you a 'stealer' I apologise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintman Posted December 4, 2007 Share Posted December 4, 2007 Thanks Les Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Les, read your description of the job - very useful. One interesting thing is I have a failed fork on the garage wall which looks the same as yours - the centre punched out without splitting. We show it to customers to explain why we change them. Paintman's tip looks worth while because I've never wanted to have a gearbox fall on me - not one of these very heavy ones at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted December 10, 2007 Author Share Posted December 10, 2007 hi all. thanks for the tips; all helpfull! i've managed to get it all back together only forgetting to put the pin back in the diff lock lever thingy, before putting the floor back in. hmm. no matter, it's gotta come back up to deal with the rotten outrigger and the lack of front mounting for the fuel tank. small things. i've found that intermittently 3rd gear doesn't want to engage and crunches. also the clutch biting point is much lower on the pedal. as i changed the slave cylendar i recon i may not have bled the system properly. sound probable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimAttrill Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Way to bleed the clutch (although it sounds strange it is easy and normally works) just pump the pedal hard a few times. Maybe that only works after changing master cylinders come to think of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Make sure your clutch slave is up the right way, bleed nipple to the top, it fits both ways. I know this ......... now Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted December 11, 2007 Author Share Posted December 11, 2007 Make sure your clutch slave is up the right way, bleed nipple to the top, it fits both ways. I know this ......... now Mo nipple's up alright. got one of those self bleed pipes (bloody fantastic thing, and cheap!) which has helped a bit, but still doesn't like to go in every time. i havn't noticed any correlation to the amount of revs, or whether i'm changing up or down gear, it just sometimes doesn't like it. it'll go in if you double de-clutch after it refuses, but that's just hassle on a relatively modern motor! have i hurt something during the fix or even driving it home after the fork failure? i drove home without using the clutch and it went smothly up the gears (i was surprised!) but wouldn't go down. i didn't force it, but something may have gone amiss. why only 3rd gear? aaaaarrrgghhh!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Hi Ronnie, Sounds like the master cylinder has given up too, not uncommon if they are over 18mths old and have been emptied and rebled, you might be able to get the pedal 'up' using a pressure bleeder- Sealey do one like a garden pump up sprayer. Changing the m/c is easier with the pedal box out and on the bench. Make sure you don't over tighten the push rod clearance as they will pump up if too tight HTH cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Warman Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 nipple's up alright. got one of those self bleed pipes (bloody fantastic thing, and cheap!) which has helped a bit, but still doesn't like to go in every time. i haven't noticed any correlation to the amount of revs, or whether I'm changing up or down gear, it just sometimes doesn't like it. it'll go in if you double de-clutch after it refuses, but that's just hassle on a relatively modern motor! have i hurt something during the fix or even driving it home after the fork failure? i drove home without using the clutch and it went smoothly up the gears (i was surprised!) but wouldn't go down. i didn't force it, but something may have gone amiss. why only 3rd gear? aaaaarrrgghhh!!!! Can I ask why the nipple has to be on top? I changed my slave cylinder and I think the nipple went back on at the bottom, is this going to cause me large amounts of grief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted December 11, 2007 Share Posted December 11, 2007 Any air bubbles in the slave will rise to the top, so that's where the bleed nipple needs to be. You could fit it as Mo allegedly didn't, but then you would have to turn your truck upside down to bleed the clutch. Les. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronnie_rotten Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 Hi Ronnie, Sounds like the master cylinder has given up too HTH cheers Steveb yes. of course. one thing leads to the next. uprate your tyres, halfshaft snaps. fit hardened shafts, cv pops. bullet proof cv, diff goes bang. oh well, by the time i've sorted this i'll have a completely new clutch system. i may even put a brand new rubber on the pedal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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