I really don't get greens.

[honitonhobbit]

Why give a Toss?

some knobs opinion that I couldn't care less about.

I'd be mighty peeved if I catch some save the planet numpty sticky anything other than £5 notes on my windscreen.

Jules next time some know it it starts tut'ing etc just tell them to ****** off, usually does the trick.

Great Attitude - that's the kind of attitude that lost us RUPP's

[honitonhobbit]

Its sole destroying

Got this picture in my head of an anti 4x4 bloke beating Jules flounder to death

[white90]

Great Attitude - that's the kind of attitude that lost us RUPP's

Of course it did David

you keep believing as such.

meek/mild bowing down to anyone who thinks they have the god given right to comment on any other persons

choices. that is what lost Rupps along with hunting/shooting will be next and angling in the firing line.

I can't see the French putting up with the dross we do

greenlanes/Rupps have no bearing on some fool voicing their un asked for opinion on a public road/carpark.

why you think it does passes me by.

[honitonhobbit]

Exactly - so you are up for a concerted effort to re-educate these fools and the idiots in government who push the media to make us scapegoats? So you are up for a dedicated, full on, recruit as many as we can, singing from the same hymn book mass protest? So you will throw away your 'don't give a toss' and put all your time and rescources behind change?

Be nice if you did, unlike so many of our countrymen, who didn't care about hunting, greenlaning, fuel prices, oppression of the country etc, etc.

[white90]

No in a word.

if they want to be anti anything that is up to them as long as they don't try to enforce their will on me

I wouldn't try to make them all drive L/Rs after all.

[Les Henson]

as many as we can

Now there's a laugh! 'we' - I don't think so.

Les.

[Matt B]

People are too lethargic.

Maybe it has something to do with Tofu?

Matt

[honitonhobbit]

Now there's a laugh! 'we' - I don't think so.

Les.

Sad isn't it, the UK apathy disease

[honitonhobbit]

People are too lethargic.

Maybe it has something to do with Tofu?

Matt

Not Tofu mate, EP90, the lethargy is most definately not in your average anti because they have a united cause. The only way you get most off roaders united is in a petty argument about who has the best winch or the best tyres (by off roaders, I don't mean the TRF who can organise a damn good cause). No what we do best is close the stable door a bit too late. You may think I am cynical, but after over twenty years of fighting to keep lanes open by virtually every legal means known to man and seeing so very few off roaders ever get off there collective arse (and ditto with land access for motorsport; but at least we won a stay of education on that one), I have a right to be. When so many just used the lanes for fun/money/image and could never be bothered to help, you get bitter.

And the same goes for this whole anti 4x4 carp, it is accelerating fast - look to the states for a weather check of what we can expect. So some quote foolish bravado as to what they will do if a sticker goes on their motor - good luck in court! What we need to do (and that is a collective WE) is do something. Anything.

We had a chance with the 4x4 Responses and thier stirling efforts at Gloucester but sadly only Powys had a decent press officer and they didn't share him! How many folk in the Gloucester area would voted for the guys who brought them water and essential items, Where would they be without Wessex, Gloucester and Powys - same goes for the other Responses who helped in other areas.

Hey ho, never mind just old Dave ranting on again (shame he was right last time but lets ignore that). Let's just carry on in our own little worlds, thinking that we know best and that an open mind is something to be ignored.

[najw]

but after over twenty years of fighting to keep lanes open by virtually every legal means known to man and seeing so very few off roaders ever get off there collective arse (and ditto with land access for motorsport; but at least we won a stay of education on that one)

It would be interesting to see how many people on here or any of the many and varied off-road based forums actually know what the government recognised representative organisation for off-road vehicular use is and, more importantly, how it is funded.

[Jos]

I appreciate why people draw a distinction between working vehicles and recreational vehicles, but we shouldn't do it too readily as it damages our position. There is a difference between a recreational vehicle that needs to be a 4x4: becuase you drive it off road, and one which doesn't need to be: you drive it on road but like having a 4x4 regardless. Within the non-necessary category the former is more defensible than the latter. However all this talk rather involves taking the basic anti- 4x4 stance as a strating place and then justifying why i / we should be allowed to drive 4x4s.

If a 4x4 is not working vehicle it is not a necessity but a lifestyle choice. Driving it is going to cause more harm to the environment than being totally inert for the time you would otherwise have been driving it. However we don't spend our R&R time totally inert so if we are looking to make moral or value judgements about the eco-friendliness of our hobbies the question should be is it causing less or more harm to the environment than other recreational activities? Cheap flight to continental Europe / the sun anyone?

My personal view as a libertarian is that given it's a free world and that we pay taxes on 'bad' things to discourage us from using them: fuel and flights (although I think a specific Tofu tax should be considered) then if I'm not breaking the law leave me alone. If people want to tut at me for driving my Hybrid then they can and they will be treated in return in a similar way to how they have treated me. Respect is as 2 way street etc.

If people are seriously concerned about environmental issues they should look beyond the anti-4x4 soundbites, and if they just want a clique to belong to and a reason to be arsey to strangers then the chances are that them and I will not get on wherever our paths cross.

Ultimately you can't stop people driving 4x4s in a free world, and you can't stop people being prats in a free world either.

My two pence worth...

[white90]

Well put Jos

[reads90]

mmm don't have any off the problems that you lot are.

In fact there are 4x4 car park only zones in parking centers. And there are loads and loads of 4x4 running aound here. Most if not all have bull bars and snorkles. And on almost every corner is a 4x4 accerioes parts place. in fact You are almost taken the tiddle out of if you don't have a bull bar and twin batteries and all the touring stuff on your 4x4

I don't think anyone would dare start taking the tiddle out of people with 4x4's here . It would be what they call here " totally un Australian" as the 4x4 is part of Aussie life along with fishing ,boating and camping, which you need a 4x4 for all

Rant on

On another point.

Just seen a speed boat from Uk (on the news) that is going to see how fast around the world it can go . And it is green and runs on Bio diesel

Ok my question (and as a person that loves boats) is WHY and the reason is to prove that you can use Bio diesel instead of Dieslel. And to show how things can be green

Well Surly it would be greener not to have made it at all , after all at a time when we can't use our cars becuase it is killing the planet along with your plasma Tv , Old style light bulbs, and everything else we are doing . And they go and make a bloody great speed boat to go round the world to see how fast they can do it. Who gives a SH*T

Although saying that does look cool

rant off

[Br00n1e]

was watching an interview on the Bali back slapping holiday and the greenie journalist would not listen to the other when he mentioned the 100 prominent scientists that disagreed with them. Easy Tax money to pay for there next exotic back slapping getaway

[disco tony]

Whats wrong with the school run anyway? We have six children, if we didn't have our 12 seat csw we would have to have a minibus, do they come with anything less than a 2.5ltr engine? NO, so F off greenies and leave us alone, some people have valid reasons for landrovers, yes, even the school run!!!

[Projectblue]

Tough one this. Have you got the moral right to drive a 4x4 if you don't actually need one? Can you live with yourself knowing that you are burning fossil fuel at twice or three times the rate of a small car?

In 1898 Rudolph Diesel invented his engine. He said "The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in course of time as important as petroleum and the coal tar products of the present time." And we still haven't really got round to mass production of alternative fuels. Imagine how many billions of barrels of oil could have been saved for stuff that needed it, had they followed up on that.

They have been able to invent a hydrogen powered car in less than 3 years. Someone just worked it out the other day then? Nope, I think they have known for a while, don't you?

The surface temp of Mars has risen 3 degrees in the last two years - sadly global warming caused by those famous Martian 4x4's.

Global warming is coming. Natural disaster is coming*. If we stopped driving cars tomorrow and all went around on those gyro wheelie things, it will still happen. Less than 6% of the worlds CO2 production is from motor vehicles so 94% of pollution would continue.

To all those people who have kids that will inherit a world of incredibly bad weather reports then this is my statement to you.

It wasn't the 4x4 buying public that broke the earth. Maybe the industrial revolution did it. Maybe it was the immergence of China as a developing world, maybe it was America refusing to accept the Kyoto treaty, maybe it was all those things, but it wasn't the 4x4.

[Projectblue]

* If ever there was a reason for owning a 4x4, that's a good one

[RRX]

I drive my 4x4 as its fully prepared in case of global warming

[rangiestu]

When are these people finally going to realise that nothing we do is going to stop global warming. And nothing we do actually makes any difference either way. The world has gone through cycles from day one getting hotter and colder over and over. These people are totally fooled/groomed by the press and mainly our government into thinking like this.

Read THIS that is the real truth about it all!!! Not that any of these fools will believe it!!! The bloody government just loves the untruths though cos they can scare the fools to hell by using the lies banded around just so they can add extra "green taxes" and earn billions from lying and scaremongering.

It makes my blood boil

[nicks90]

i tried telling an enviro-nutter something simillar a few months ago and got completely ignored.

a thousand years ago, the scandinavians settled in greenland, they didnt call it greenland because they were an inherently sarcastic people - but because it was GREEN. The earths temperature was significantly higher than it is today. Plenty of the southern regions of greenland were used for livestock farming and the lower foothills were full of tin and lead mines.

every year they would mothball the mines as the snows settled in and return in the spring.

unfortunately the whole earth suffered a mini ice age in the 12th century and the snows never receeded. Farming ceased as all the fertile grass lands died off.

since then the temperature has slowly increased, and only now are we getting to the point that the ice and snow encasing these tin/lead mines are being rediscovered. Archeologists are finding these mines in perfect condition, tools neatly wrapped in oiled skins at the mouths of the mines, dried food stuffs and cured meats stored in underground storage rooms within the mine systems, huts and workshops and tooling equipment - all being discovered as the ice recedes!

So this PROVES beyond a doubt that the earth has small and (to us) significant temperature fluctuations constantly. These changes can have massive global impacts on humans and there is nothing we can do about it. Our emissions may not be helping and might even be speeding up this natural process - but we are not causing it. The last thousand years have been the coldest this earth has experienced since the last proper iceage - proven fact.

[disco_al]

hoorah!!! good to see some other people taking note of all the scientist who know the truth.

there is plenty of evidence to support the above, and has been for years, it's about time that the powers that *cough* run the place took note, and stopped listening to drivel from the green brigade.

Global warming is a natural process - fact

It will get warmer no matter what we do now - fact

force feed them all 4* until they realise i reckon

[Matt B]

I am so glad that there are other people who share my sceptisism of this whole argument.

Add to the facts above that the whole thing is based on a computer model generated by people whos livlihoods depend on the general populace believing what they are saying and 150 years worth of data and you are close to the truth about this whole scam.

Doesn't detract from the fact that 30p a litre for bio fuel is attractive...

Matt