The Badger Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So, on the back of the operating manuel it's says the new 07 defender does not do Biodiesel? This does seem a little strange due to the current issues. What do you surgest is does not like, do you think that the seals might not like it. Has anyone heard any info about how to fix this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantd Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 So, on the back of the operating manuel it's says the new 07 defender does not do Biodiesel?This does seem a little strange due to the current issues. What do you surgest is does not like, do you think that the seals might not like it. Has anyone heard any info about how to fix this? Usually the fuel filter or pump isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted February 17, 2008 Author Share Posted February 17, 2008 yeah I thought it might be the fuel pump, is it the Bosh one that can handle it. But I don't know the correct fuel filter to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted February 17, 2008 Share Posted February 17, 2008 No common rail engines like biodiesel. With the high pressure pumps, the higher viscosity is a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 No common rail engines like biodiesel. With the high pressure pumps, the higher viscosity is a problem. I see, i wonder if these guys can help http://www.dieselveg.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex Member Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 IMO, no. Biodiesel is ONLY for old style diesels, period. No modern diesels can run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted February 18, 2008 Author Share Posted February 18, 2008 IMO, no.Biodiesel is ONLY for old style diesels, period. No modern diesels can run it. how odd? Why on earth would they make something new, that can't handle a possible future source of power. Make's no sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 Biodiesel shouldn't be a problem, it is made to BS standards equivalent to mineral diesel. I think (i could be wrong) that some people are confusing biodiesel with SVO (veg oil) when discussing viscosity etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br00n1e Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 confuses me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 So, on the back of the operating manuel it's says the new 07 defender does not do Biodiesel?This does seem a little strange due to the current issues. What do you surgest is does not like, do you think that the seals might not like it. Has anyone heard any info about how to fix this? 1) Fuel quality All the major manufacturers point out that RME must meet EN 14214 specifications. Unrefined cold-pressed vegetable oils are not included in any brands' biodiesel approval. A group of fuel injection specialists, including Bosch, Delphi, Siemens VDO and Denso, warn about the quality of the final fuel. Of particular concern is the oxidative stability of blends. When mixed with low sulphur diesel, biodiesel can become more prone to deterioration. This means that the fuel can become dangerously corrosive and gums can form to block filters and cause coking. Biodiesel can also corrode painted surfaces, plastics and rubber, so extra caution should be taken when filling the fuel tank. On the other hand, biodiesel degrades naturally, so any overflow can be rinsed off. 2) Its a commonrail diesel. thus very high pressure. Molecular size is therefore very important. 3) Just dont do it. On the right blend it will run fine, for weeks, months, maybe even years. Then it'll be payback time. 4) If ya wanted to run on veggies you chose the wrong engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bean Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 They don't want it to run on veg oil because they got a back-hander from some rich Oil Tycoon in Arabia. Also in 2 yrs they will release an engine solely designed to run on Veg Oil so it will make everyone go out and buy that one instead. just my 2 pence worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy_neutron Posted February 18, 2008 Share Posted February 18, 2008 They don't want it to run on veg oil because they got a back-hander from some rich Oil Tycoon in Arabia.Also in 2 yrs they will release an engine solely designed to run on Veg Oil so it will make everyone go out and buy that one instead. just my 2 pence worth... They say that the market is customer driven. Problem is that most manufacturers are getting quite out of touch with what the customer wants. It would be very simple to make a diesel run solely on veg oil especially if done at the design stage. As for rushing out to buy one ... Definately not. It'll be another computerised, over complicated gadget riddled piece of **** thats doing a very simple job. If you want one now though ... just buy a 200tdi fit a heat exchanger etc from dieselveg and a kenlowe prestart heater that goes in ya water line. Job done. This is for SVO though. Not so practical either but could maybe be preheated with a battery and invertor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badger Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Could be a case of 'Who killed the electric car', but given the nature of things, you would think it 'could' be possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 A lot of the modern HGV only allow 5% bio (not SVO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bean Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Didn't January's issue of LRO show you how to make your own Bio-Diesel. It was a how 2 guide i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantd Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 A confusing subject. Here's what I (think I) know: "Biodiesel" What is it? It is the commercially available product made from plant oils. It is usually blended 5% with 95% mineral diesel. In these concentrations, it CAN be used in unmodified diesel engines - unlike "Straight Vegetable Oil" which, even blended, requires modification because of its increase molecular weight. Benefits Controversial but the NET carbon emissions are said to be 50-60% less than mineral diesel because of the production technique (the plants being made from atmospheric CO2). By distance travelled, it actually emitts more CO2 than regular diesel in the combustion process. Personally I believe those that think these benefits are overstated because it doesn't account for CO2 release of disturbed soil or what other use the land would have been put to (growing CO2-absorbing crops to eat...). It also doesn't account for the social damage of cash crops. Not sure what the tax benefits of biodiesel are at the moment but I'm sure the government will either introduce or legistate for. Remember - we're talking about commercially available biodiesel, not SVO. Biodiesel is also a better solvent than normal diesel so it cleans the fuel system and engine. This leads to particles of debris being freed up, which is why manufacturers recommend replacing fuel filters more frequently. This freed up crud can also lead to blockages in the system if the vehicle has run with standard dirty fuel for a long time. You could argue, however, that it is beneficial for the engine to run this fuel so long as it is done early and is sustained. I don't know if there is a deleterious effect on seals and hoses of the more corrosive fuel. That Land Rover doesn't warranty the use of biodiesel could be seen as an overly cautious position - especially for modern vehicles, which won't have a built up coating of carp. This is especially true of Land Rover, who go out of their way to claim the Defender's engine has been designed to run on poor fuel quality and high sulpher fuels in the third world. Conclusion Sitting on the fence here but there may be some benefits to your engine and to the environment and yet there may be some longer term damage to fuel filter and plastic components. Net result is it must be fine to run on a new engine if you really want to but older ones might be an issue. Worth flushing with couple of tanks of regular diesel before you take it in for a service though Stay away from SVO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 In France you cannot buy 100% mineral diesel, it has to be a minimum 5%(?) biodiesel by law. The same legislation is coming to the UK. This 5% mix is also commonly referred to as B5 where is is currently sold in the UK. Think of the difference between SVO and biodiesel as being like the difference between crude oil and mineral diesel. One is the natural, unrefined product and the other is the refined product retaining only the desirable elements. The chemistry and process is very different but you get the idea... The people at Biosulis assure me that they run their Td5 Defender on 100% biodiesel. Mine runs well on 30% biodiesel. The guys at Biosulis told me that very modern diesel engines have a CO(?) sensor that gets confused when the engine is run on biodiesel as the emissions are not within the expected range for mineral diesel. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Net result is it must be fine to run on a new engine if you really want to but older ones might be an issue. Worth flushing with couple of tanks of regular diesel before you take it in for a service though Come on, spill the beans, have you tried it in yours? Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If you don't mind,, will give a pass to bio diesel in my 07 !! not convinced of it suitability on common rails lumps yet !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WALFY Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I'm going off 100% bio for my 200TDI at the moment. The supplier that Chris mentioned above is my local supplier. I have to filter all the fuel I get from them because of the white powder residue that is left in the fuel. I have to let each can settle for a few days then pour slowly until this powder starts to appear in the flow. Then the rest goes through a filter before going into my tank. I made the mistake of just keeping on pouring it in. Was having to change fuel filters every 2 or 3 tanks of fuel. Not the cheapest of options. Got it down to a fine art in the end with a change in the dark taking about 3-5 mins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 There is no need to avoid SVO with older engines, i run my 200Tdi happily on 80% blend of SVO at the moment, even with the cold weather, purchased from sainsburys in 1l bottles!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bean Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 With any engine that has a few years under its belt its impossible to tell what sort of life its had, engine and fuel parts made of had a harder life than those found in other vehicles of the same age. It is due to this unknown element which explains why it will work for some and not for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 If you don't mind,, will give a pass to bio diesel in my 07 !! not convinced of it suitability on common rails lumps yet !! Me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantd Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 If you don't mind,, will give a pass to bio diesel in my 07 !! not convinced of it suitability on common rails lumps yet !! Same here. Until fuel passes £1.50 a litre anyway. Mind you, with the rubbish fuel consumption I'm still getting (22mpg) I might have to consider it earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ101 Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Same here. Until fuel passes £1.50 a litre anyway.Mind you, with the rubbish fuel consumption I'm still getting (22mpg) I might have to consider it earlier. Mmm ditto,, best i have got so far is similar 22.5 ,,, worst 17.5 , so its not just me then !! hey ho back to topic !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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