Milemarker Type S Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Just out of interest, what are people doing to their clutches to have them fail after such a short time, or to get so hot as to melt the release bearing?Not being sarky or having a dig, just genuinely concerned! I ask as I changed the clutch in my 200tdi 110 back in about October/November 07 as it wasn't clearing properly (turned out to be a cracked spigot bush dragging on the gearbox mainshaft, not the clutch.) The clutch I took out was barely worn - plenty of meat material left on the friction plate and next to no slop in the springs on the pressure plate. The release arm itself (a bog standard OEM unit) also had no wear and no sign of punching through. The clutch had been in there since the 200 tdi went in about 4 years and 50,000 miles ago. This is on a vehicle that weighs in at 2.7 tonnes and is used regularly for heavy towing, marshalling and general running about. It's also my daily driver and averages about 12,000 miles a year. Thoughts gents, please! Matt You tend to end up slipping the clutch an awful lot when competing in challenge events- especially when drive assisting the winch... It is not your run of the mill road mileage type situation!!! I picked up a 130 clutch kit from Brookwells not long ago and fitted it to my 90 with no problems at all. Shrek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Matt purely the abuse it gets off road this weekend I made the mistake of not putting it into low box then drove across the woods, followed by a fair few high revs launches to get up or out of boggy areas. no slipping the clutch as Shrek mentions as I have the crawler box fitted all was ok during the day but on the way home it started slipping badly in higher gears. the clutch has been in the a very short time the previous one covered nearly 50k miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I put my clutch wear down to:- 1, my bad driving 2, drive assist winching in axle deep clay/sandy bogs with simex copy tires. 3, a poorly 200tdi which on cold mornings means i have to slip the clutch to pull away in high range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will_warne Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Mattpurely the abuse it gets off road this weekend I made the mistake of not putting it into low box then drove across the woods, followed by a fair few high revs launches to get up or out of boggy areas. no slipping the clutch as Shrek mentions as I have the crawler box fitted all was ok during the day but on the way home it started slipping badly in higher gears. the clutch has been in the a very short time the previous one covered nearly 50k miles Tony, it could also be the rear main oil seal (unlikely as you've only just rebuilt the engine) or the seal at the front of the gearbox. Both failed on my 90 many moons ago and killed my first clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 No oil in the bell housing at all Will as you said engine rebuilt and new seals everywhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cipx2 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 One thing hasn't been said loud and clear in this thread: are we talking about "which clutch" for normal vehicles or for competition vehicles? Normal vehicles being: everyday drives, greenlaning, light offroad with friends on occasions Competition vehicles: mostly competing in offroad events, professional or amateur. That's because there's no such clutch as in "one size fits all" you know. My previous reply was written having a more normal vehicle in mind. As for the clutch abnormal wear and tear: - if you get to abuse the clutch to the point that you can smell it, this means you just shortened its life with some thousand miles. - if you continue to abuse it after the 1st sign of a burning clutch, you will soon bring the cover plate and it's spring to the point where spring will suffer irreversible thermal transformation hence the slipping - I've seen people using the clutch as an on/off switch except 1st gear; although disengaging the clutch is similar to flicking a switch to the "off" state, flicking it back "on" must be done as like in 1st gear only faster - same gentle and continuous movement - no matter you go up or down with the gears Of course, the above is valid for a normal use of a vehicle and wouldn't make sense in competition vehicle. So, which kind are we talking about? moose, I've seen your question but I won't answer it as yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Mine was a daily driver used for competition to. the clutch didn't smell of burning at all this weekend and only started slipping on the journey home. the 130 clutch plate(upgrade) is only a small amount larger in diameter than a standard plate, the covers are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinny Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 there is paddle clutch kits on e bay 230 pound is that a good price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 After speaking to those who know I'd say not a bad price for a complete kit http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LANDROVER-DISCOVERY-...7QQcmdZViewItem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 90 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Mine was a daily driver used for competition to.the clutch didn't smell of burning at all this weekend and only started slipping on the journey home. the 130 clutch plate(upgrade) is only a small amount larger in diameter than a standard plate, the covers are the same. The 130 clutch cover/ pressure plate I had was different to the normal 90/110 version with much higher clamping pressure and it killed my knee trying to work it all day in a comp. Apparently the 130 pedal box has a different leverage ratio to combat this. I was gona try and find the 130 pedal box but ended up just putting a std 90 clutch back in. I have put 2 kits in and skimmed the fly wheel twice in 2 years of comps but I am very hard on the clutch. Id rather slip it than have the abuse go through the transmission when drive assist winching in nasty situations so Ive kinda accepted I'll just stuff a clutch in every year! Last one was a LUK. The one previous was a Valeo but some people on the forum have had bad experience with Valeo breaking up which is why I went for the LUK although the Valeo was fine when I took it out. After some experience with rally cars I personally would not fit a paddle clutch as I wouldn't be able to slip it when needed and they tend to be very abrupt (either in or out) which aint great when trying to find grip pulling away when its slippery. Although Tony has the underdrive so it may well be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 /off topic/I'm using the same version as you Ralph... however... when you do the search, and you've got the picture of the item on the screen and the bar across the bottom that shows the description, call out number and (on the right) part number, sometimes the part number is in italics, if so, right click it and select "ISO search", which will then search for any superceded part numbers. "why doesn't it show the latest part number in the first place?" i hear you ask... dunno. possibly becaue when i searched for the clutch plate yesterday. i never put in a VIN or registration plate, so it (microcat) couldn't be age/VIN specific. possibly if i'd have put in a later Td5 VIN number it would have poppped up with the later UQB number. /back on topic/ Ah, OK, I just typed in FTC1994 & it chucked it up on the screen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 My issue Steve is the clutch(130) has failed in just 6months can't do with replacing the clutch too often so will try the alternative and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon W Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if this sounds stupid or teaching anyone to suck eggs. But my new clutch started to slip when floored in 4th or 5th and this had happened previously on a clutch of known age before I swapped the engine. So I figured it couldnt be the clutch again. But the adjustment of the pedal as it was biting near the top of the travel, so adjusted the pedal movement and the problem was solved, so obviously it had been adjusted in the past, so was a case of adjusting it back again. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 90 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 My issue Steve is the clutch(130) has failed in just 6monthscan't do with replacing the clutch too often so will try the alternative and see what happens Yea, Six months is bad and with the underdrive it should be having a relatively easy time of things. After 12 months mine didn't slip but it was definitely not feeling like it should so I changed it. See how it goes, the paddle clutch will last longer its just a case of getting used to it I spose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Jon what you describe is what I'm suffering from slipping in 4th-5th(no slipping all day in the woods in lower gears) new clutch as I said many times 6months ago new slave cylinder/new master cylinder and the bite point is right near the top of the pedal. did you follow the manual for adjusting? First time I've changed a master cylinder and the pedal sits lower than it did previously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Clutch pedal adjustment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php?showtopic=23296 Plus how do you check the freeplay as mentioned in number 7? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 the free play is between the master cylinder piston position at rest & the pedal push rod, adjust the 2 nuts to achive the 1.5mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 The official way is to use a standard 12 inch rule (or whatever that is in metric) from the pedal to the floor and then measure the free play by using hand pressure on the clutch pedal...........a better wat is to lift the cover off the pedal box and chack the free play on the master cylinder push rod ................ then adjust accordingly. As you are using an underdrive and slipping is not evident in the lower gears, then I would indeed suspect adjustment or oil contamination of the linings. Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 Ian/Ralph I suspected contamination after it had turned over on Sat but there was no oil/water in the bell housing at all. What Jon mentioned and Ian M on the linked post both seem similar and the clutch never smelt at all(no evidence of burning it out) the slipping is only in the higher gears if I slip the pedal or floor the accelerator pedal on hills. I will adjust it and give it a go before pulling the gearbox back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 the free play is between the master cylinder piston position at rest & the pedal push rod, adjust the 2 nuts to achive the 1.5mm. Forgive me if this sounds daft but how do you see this to measure it as the rod is inside the cylinder bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bull Bar Cowboy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Undo the 6 phillips screws and lift the cover on the pedal box .............. all will become clear ............. you can feel/see the play Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Neale Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Forgive me if this sounds daft but how do you see this to measure itas the rod is inside the cylinder bore Tony, Undo the six screws on the master cyl cover plate (in the engine bay) - you'll see the push rod and adjusting screws. The free play you're looking for is between the push rod and the pedal trunnion - as described in the workshop manual. Hth. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 loosen the rear nut & adjust the front nut until all freeplay is taken out then undo the front nut to achieve the 1.5mm movement then tighten the rear nut, once that's done tighten the front nut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If you do fit a paddle clutch, and I wouldn't now have anything else, if you use it for road use (and I mean EVER on the road) Fer gawds sake ensure you get a paddle clutch with a sprung centre, then you will be able to do some slipping of the clutch I think since they banned aspestos linings the stuff they use now is just not as good with punishing and lasting. A sprung paddle plate and a decent outer say B&B with a solid carrier will be fine for most on road use, many would struggle to know the difference until in very heavy traffic, but it does make for a bullet proof clutch unit, just found the reciept for mine tonight - 11 years ago and its in the 90 at the mo "Slightly worn" If you have never driven with one you would be pleasantly suprised to, sprung paddles are much kinder and behave close to std kit Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.