Yorshire Dales Lane closures

[Kev Baldwin]

News Release

National Park welcomes green lane restrictions

Grassington, 18 April, 2008.

Eight ‘green lanes’ in the Yorkshire Dales National Park are to be closed to recreational motor vehicles.

The Access Committee of the Yorkshire Dales National Park Authority (YDNPA) has decided to impose full-time Traffic Regulation Orders (TROs) on the routes following a programme of full consultation. The Orders will be reviewed after five years.

Jon Avison, the YDNPA’s Head of Park Management, said: “This is a milestone decision for the National Park Authority. For many years the Authority has been concerned about the effects of recreational motor vehicle use on a number of routes in the National Park.

“New legislation has made it possible for us to apply TROs to eight of these routes. The application of these orders will help to preserve the peace and tranquillity of the National Park and enhance the enjoyment of other users.”

Under new powers that came into force on 1 October last year, national park authorities are now able to impose TROs themselves instead of having to ask the local highways authorities to do it. This is the first time that the YDNPA has used its new powers.

The eight routes that will be closed to recreational motor vehicles are:

Street Gate to Arncliffe Cote

Stockdale Lane

Harber Scar Lane

The Highway

Gorbeck Road

Cam High Road (Far Gearstones to Cam Houses)

Old Ing to Cam End (Ling Gill)

Horton Scar Lane / Foxup Road.

//ends//

[SteveG]

The application of these orders will help to preserve the peace and tranquillity of the National Park and enhance the enjoyment of other users.”

This is the real reason for this. It doesn't matter what condition the lanes are in etc and any amount of lobbying will do no good as what they really want is vehicles away from tourist areas. Apart from in the car parks and roads bringing the tourists there, that is.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest WALFY]

It's a shame that they have closed them. Does anyone have any pictorial evidence of the damage as they are now. I know it's along way off but if we have pictures now, when it comes to the review we can then use that evidence that any further damage is from other quaters.

As Steve has said it's all to do with tourism, but I would imagine that a group of greenlaners would bring a fair amount of money to the local economy.

[ChrisV8]

It has absolutely nothing to do with Tourists Mr Bartholomew and his cronies from YDGLA have a declared intention of "removing this menace from the Dales" it is on their web site. They have been allowed by us not being proactive to get contraol of the Access Committee so unfortunately this is only the start !!! The Dales will become a no go area and he is now setting his sights on the Lake District as he turned up at the meeting there a month or so ago.

We must ensure we support and get members on the Access Commitee in all the nearby National Parks urgently, I for 1 am going to try and get on somehow I live in the Dales unfortunately but we need concerted action NOW.

[widget]

It's a shame that they have closed them. Does anyone have any pictorial evidence of the damage as they are now.

Gorbeck Road was pristine! This was taken on the grand tour last August.

[Projectblue]

Gorbeck Road was pristine! This was taken on the grand tour last August.

Nice pic and I wish that common sense and evidence could make a difference but this has been coming for years. The YDNPA are utterly contemptable anti vehicle users and have been trying to shut lanes through whatever means they could.

I've given up fighting now. It's an unstoppable tide of self righteous bobble hatted egomaniacs who demand their peace and quiet in the countryside when they go visit it on their days off.

To all those people who have no other means of enjoying this beautiful landscape except by 4x4, I'm sorry. But I know I tried.

[widget]

Well done for trying - by objecting it limits their ambitions..

[Dixie Dean]

Anyone got any plans to drive any of these lanes this weekend before they close for good?

[Guest otchie1]

Anyone got any plans to drive any of these lanes this weekend before they close for good?

I was so struck by the seemingly preposterous idea that such a qwango could have the power to issue an 'order' and the even more ludicrous ascertion that breaching the order would attract an enforceable fine that I had a look at the YDNPA & the LDNPA.

Ye Gods what a self righteous bunch of busybodies they are.....here, an extract from the LDNPA Action Plan from 2006,

Spectacular LandScape Key Delivery Aim No24,

"Ensure change strengthens the distinctiveness of the aquatic and land based localities of the National Park."

Prosperous Economy Key Delivery Aim No5

"Co-ordinate a proactive approach to growing an integrated economy which nurtures vibrant, diverse and high value businesses and enables them to develop and meet market demands."

Does anyone know what they are talking about?

I smell Common Purpose training speak.

[Bowie69]

The application of these orders will help to preserve the peace and tranquillity of the National Park and enhance the enjoyment of other users.”

They seem to have forgotten that 'green laners' are also users, who wish to enjoy themselves..... grrrrrrrrrr...........

[ChrisV8]

Unfortunately, the Dales will rapidly become a no go area, the Access Committee is totally dominated by Bobblies mostly resident outside the Park led by Mr Bartholomew who is now chair of the Committee, all the TRO's were passed on the nod by the Committee and ignored totally the National Park Officers recommendations. The Government have in NERC and this stupid bit of legislation now allowed totally biased, unelected people to carry out their own agendas with regard to these closures. Have a look at the YDGLA web site if you don't be;lieve me !

There is a hit list of some 20 odd lanes they area "monitoring" a load of complete rubbish as they are the next to be closed and they then will progess through all the 100 lanes in the Dales closing them all. God help us if the latest Government proposal to extend this Park West is allowed to happen as they will then close a load of really good little used lanes.

[landroversforever]

not more lanes being closed :( :( :( wont be any left to drive when i have a land rover

[Guest otchie1]

Unfortunately, the Dales will rapidly become a no go area, the Access Committee is totally dominated by Bobblies mostly resident outside the Park led by Mr Bartholomew who is now chair of the Committee, all the TRO's were passed on the nod by the Committee and ignored totally the National Park Officers recommendations. The Government have in NERC and this stupid bit of legislation now allowed totally biased, unelected people to carry out their own agendas with regard to these closures. Have a look at the YDGLA web site if you don't be;lieve me !

There is a hit list of some 20 odd lanes they area "monitoring" a load of complete rubbish as they are the next to be closed and they then will progess through all the 100 lanes in the Dales closing them all. God help us if the latest Government proposal to extend this Park West is allowed to happen as they will then close a load of really good little used lanes.

Yorkshire Dales Green Lanes Alliance sounds so unbiased and supported by the majority of users doesn't it? membership seems to be limited to walkers though who already have freedom to roam.

The YDGLA needs a counterpoint that can muster a few hundred responsible recreational users who spend money in the local area and who will WRITE in objection to the TROs. Letters to MPs & councillors will also help IF THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY INDIVIDUAL & THERE ARE LOTS OF THEM.

From the little I've read these committee members are appointed; some by the council and some by the secretary of State.

The details of the Authority clearly underscores the idea that the Authority is accountable and that this decision need not be irreversible. If it could be show that a special interest group with a non-inclusive vindictive axe to grind had 'massaged' data then it would need to reconsider its position.

The Local Authority Ombudsman would be the people to deal with any justified complaints that were ignored by the YDNPA.

All this would need to rest on solid evidence though - is there any actual evidence of conflict within the Park? Do irresponsible drivers damage tracks? Do GLASS/local groups volunteer within the YDNPA to repair tracks?

The YDNPA is made up of 22 members; 12 appointed from local councils and 10 appointed by the Secretary of State. Certainly peps like Malcolm Petyt might not be onside here but ex-quarrymen like Carl Liss or ex-Miner Steve Shaw-Wright shouldn't be too biased. Certainly not an Authority too full of bobblies :-)

How about inviting them out on a jaunt? Throw in a pie & a pint and show them the quiet joys of Green Laning.

Best of luck with it - I think you've got more chance against over zealous walkers on the granite of Yorkshire than we have down here against horse riding councilors and MPs on clay & sand.

We have 677 miles of bridelway in Surrey but only 74 miles of BOAT.

[ChrisV8]

From the little I've read these committee members are appointed; some by the council and some by the secretary of State.

The decisions on this are made by the Access Forum Committee with it seems a delegated authroity on these TROs

http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/index/loo...ers_details.htm

Chaired by Mr Bartholomew (he of YDGLA chair as well) members are also co opted onto the Committee which is how all the Bobblies have now got on. Malcolm Pettyt is Vice Chair of the Authority not the Access Forum who are making these decisions he is a paid up member of the Ramblers but is not too impressed by Mr Bartholomew's antics. I know Malcolm and would say he is a reasonable man unlike Mr B and his cronies. Geoff Wilson from LARA has resigned from the Committee in protest at the totally undemocratic way this TRO process has been pushed through, but YDNP have just ignored the protest. After many many years of Geoff working with the Park I find this totally unacceptable.

The Dales National Parks Access Forum Committee is now controlled by an unelected bigoted minority who are pushing through their own agenda dictated by the Chair who is well known for his narrow minded approach. The problem is a lot of them do not live in the Park and come from outside with their own agendas but we cannot remove them by a vote they stay for a term by which time the damage will be done !

[Jen]

How can they impose TRO's without any consultation? I'd be intrigued if anyone knows the answer.

Technically for a TRO:

Statutory Consultation (with Police, Highway Authority, Local Councillors)

Public Consultation (advert in the press, notices on the roads the TRO will affect)

6 weeks after the legal order is implemented = Time to make an objection to the legal process

It's also encouraged now, but not a legality, that legal orders should be available to consult on line and take on line objections.

They also need to produce a Statement Of Reasons (SOR) for every TRO - so they have to have justifcation for proposing it.

Unless anyone knows differently and the rules are different for the parks? This maybe worth putting in writing if anyone local that knows the lanes is going to complain? I deal with TRO's everyday and write them myself, so if I can offer any information let me know.

[Guest otchie1]

The decisions on this are made by the Access Forum Committee with it seems a delegated authroity on these TROs

http://www.yorkshiredales.org.uk/index/loo...ers_details.htm

Chaired by Mr Bartholomew (he of YDGLA chair as well) members are also co opted onto the Committee which is how all the Bobblies have now got on. Malcolm Pettyt is Vice Chair of the Authority not the Access Forum who are making these decisions he is a paid up member of the Ramblers but is not too impressed by Mr Bartholomew's antics. I know Malcolm and would say he is a reasonable man unlike Mr B and his cronies. Geoff Wilson from LARA has resigned from the Committee in protest at the totally undemocratic way this TRO process has been pushed through, but YDNP have just ignored the protest. After many many years of Geoff working with the Park I find this totally unacceptable.

The Dales National Parks Access Forum Committee is now controlled by an unelected bigoted minority who are pushing through their own agenda dictated by the Chair who is well known for his narrow minded approach. The problem is a lot of them do not live in the Park and come from outside with their own agendas but we cannot remove them by a vote they stay for a term by which time the damage will be done !

Ahhh, thanks for the eye-opener.

I meant no slight against Mr Petyt, I was just guessing from his bio.

Does sound a lot like it's time to get the ombudsman and even the Secretary of State involved (probably via your MP)....not at all 'inclusive' is it?

Sounds as though the YDNPA have the authority but have devolved it to the access committee which of course allows for the YDNPA to un-devolve it if they choose - the NPA have the power, not the Access Committee. Ignore the Committee, lobby the Authority. Clearly the Access Committee have forgotten the principle of 'access for all',

"All visitors and residents of the Yorkshire Dales National Park should be able to enjoy some access to the countryside, no matter what their level of ability. They should be able to decide for themselves whether or not a public right of way or opportunities for recreation are suitable for them as individuals – this is given the shorthand term of ‘Access for All’. Improving access for those with disabilities can also benefit the able-bodied by making facilities easier to use."

These busy little fellows only have the power that you let them take and need reminding that National Park does not mean "Recreational Walking Area".

[ChrisV8]

Yes the YDNP seem to be going their own way led by the prats on the Access Committee, there is a lot of disquiet in the Western side of the Park anyway about lots of issues but little we can do as they are in general totally unelected.

I have been today to have a look at one end of the nearest UCR to be TRO'd there are absolutely no signs saying anything is being done at all now that must contravene the regs as although they have published in the paper surely there should be public notices of their intentions posted at the start and finish of the lane ?

I have objected to the TRO on Mastiles lane as a matter of principle as although it was a mess when closed 4 years ago it has recovered well and a "managed" approach like the LDNP heirarchy would be totally applicable.

The local lane is one I think that should be closed across the open fell as it is not suitable which is why no 4x4 have ever used it to my knowledge beyond the gate up from Dent. It will be interesting to see what they do about the local dog walkers who use the track from Dent regularly to access the moorland but will be totally illegal using it for parking !!!!

[Guest otchie1]

I have been today to have a look at one end of the nearest UCR to be TRO'd there are absolutely no signs saying anything is being done at all now that must contravene the regs as although they have published in the paper surely there should be public notices of their intentions posted at the start and finish of the lane ?

I'm sure Jen will know for sure but so far as I am aware a TRO that isn't signposted at both ends simply doesn't exist as a TRO. I'm probably wrong though and will soon be picked up by the Enforcement Officers of Uncle Gordon's New Free Republic.

[ChrisV8]

I'm sure Jen will know for sure but so far as I am aware a TRO that isn't signposted at both ends simply doesn't exist as a TRO. I'm probably wrong though and will soon be picked up by the Enforcement Officers of Uncle Gordon's New Free Republic.

Tomorrow I am going to make time to go and look at the Barth Bridge in Dentdale end of the proposed TRO as that's where the issues will be you can drive a car up the track to the fell gate which is what a lot of dog walkers do so will be interesting to see what is signed !!

This is just the issue that is happening in the Lakes with the Bobblies who drive up part of Garburn Pass and Walna Scar to park, now both are Restricted Byways / Bridleways so they are being illegal !!!!! The issue may well be passed to the Police to enforce the parking and byway contraventions, hows about a load of Bobblies with section 59 ? notices !!!!

[treebloke]

How can they impose TRO's without any consultation? I'd be intrigued if anyone knows the answer.

NERC gave them the power to do it and shafted every bit of common sense from green laning at the same time.

Not only have we lost the RUPPs but one by one the national parks will follow suit over the years as the ramblers gain more footholds.

If you ever travel to any of the national parks and look at the vast array of car parks some times filled to the brim with cars all driven by ramblers who quite often walk across fields with crops because they can. What do you suppose was there before the car park? who pays the farmer for the loss of his crop which has been walked over by the red sock brigade.

NERC was totally biased.

[Jen]

I'd understand if they gave them the power to do the TRO (as a Borough Council we work as agents to the Highway Authority so that's entirely possible) but how does that stop them bypassing the legal process? I think that would be a question worth putting to them. The consultation is part of the legal process for implementing a TRO.

Yes, a notice should be posted stating the TRO has been made and if it has prevented vehicular access a sign should be inplace to state that (and/or the definitive map changed), if neither has happened then I doubt it would be enforceable.

[nicks90]

i was on the land access forum for wakefield until the NERC bill [*] and yes - if they implement a TRO they must also update the definitive map AND post the relevant signs at both ends of the affected lane for it to be legal.

If they do not update the definitive map and/or post a TRO notice then it is not illegal to drive the lane. Most defintive maps are completely out of date and changes can take up to 12 months to update.

So with regards these 8 tro's - check the definitive map, if they arent on there you can drive them regardless.

[*] wakefield district did have 182kms of rupp, boats and various other 'green roads' until the nerc bill. Since then we now have a grand total of 5km of boats. So it seemed absolutely pointless to stay a member of the LAF as a representative of 4x4/motorised offroading - as the council quite clearly stated they have neither the money or inclination to upgrade all the rupps etc to boats (this involves an expensive and laborious paperwork/court process). So i resigned.....

[ChrisV8]

Just been and looked at all three ends to the lane near me, no signs at all stating the proposal.

Surely this must mean they have to readvertise and start again ??

[Jen]

You can legally implement a TRO and not have the signs/lines inplace, it's just not enforceable until you do. This is because it's practically impossible to tie contractors down to specific dates to implement lining and signing, especially when you can't line in the rain.

Interesting they have to do the map and the signs, I would have thought the map would have been enough (i.e. it's no longer a right of way).

[Guest otchie1]

Just been and looked at all three ends to the lane near me, no signs at all stating the proposal.

Surely this must mean they have to readvertise and start again ??

How could you ever damage those lanes? These are damagable lanes, well only until it stops raining