TheBeastie Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Got round to carving up fan shroud and attempted fitting this morning. From my template it looked as if it would be tight but would go. Sadly that is not the case No matter how I look at it the bottom of the fan over the intercooler is had against the bottom pipe but still has the shroud over it so protecting the fan itself, but with not a millimeter to spare. If I push and shove I can just get the top part of the fan under the top hose of the radiator but I have had to shave off the fan shroud and it is obvious that even with the hose off the fan will not turn since it is jammed up hard against the top hose. I hope the photos show the problem. I think I am faced with three options but wonder if anyone has a better idea. Option 1 is to carve off the upper fan and just use the one - but if I do this I think a 10" fan is too small??? Option 2 is to forget the double fan, go back to scrappy and get bigger single fan off a Mondeo and put the original payment down to experience Option 3 is to give up the whole thing and put the viscous back on Having come this far I am not going to do option 3, and anyway given the temperature gauge showed no difference when it came off I suspect it is knackered anyway! Currently still have the hoses off in case someone comes up with a bright fix-it. Failing that will put the hoses back on and re-top the cooling system pending further action! Any suggestions would be really helpful since I am feeling very down about this little disaster. Thanks Malcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Mondeo fan fits pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeastie Posted May 18, 2008 Author Share Posted May 18, 2008 Thanks Landymanluke It was a mondeo fan! I saw the double and thought it would work well since I had seen posts mentioning the double Mondeo fan. I am now older and wiser. So I guess it is back to the scrappy but not being greedy this time. PS If anyone near Edinburgh wants a partially carved up double Mondeo fan it is there for the taking unless someone can come up with a bright idea of how I might use it elsewhere!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest otchie1 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 Thanks LandymanlukeIt was a mondeo fan! I saw the double and thought it would work well since I had seen posts mentioning the double Mondeo fan. I am now older and wiser. I think the double fans only fit in the 2.5TDs that don't have intercooler pipes in the way. TBH, I sometimes forget to reconnect my electric fan and it's not overly bothered in normal running around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacks906 Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 do you have space and spare plastic bits on fans to chop out most of the plastic and rotate them slightly so they lay flat across them i have twin fans but blowers so sit at the front dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco tony Posted May 18, 2008 Share Posted May 18, 2008 put fans in front of rad and reverse wiring to blow not suck? if you have room. I did it with my old disco but had to remove the slam panel supports (the two inverted vee bars), this did not cause a problem and cooled a treat. My twin fans came off peugot 306. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBeastie Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Thanks for the suggestions guys I think the best solution is to try and get a single Mondeo fan out of the scrappy and write off the outlay on the double fan. The offer still stands for anyone who wants to pick up a slightly butchered double fan from Edinburgh Best wishes Malcolm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 May I add a little observation here. Before you go down this route you should check what the specifications of the selected fan are, as in cubic feet per second of air moved and against what static. As a HVAC fan engineer I can tell you that the standard belt driven 300TDi fan is far superior to 99% of electric fans. 12 and even 24volt DC Electric fans simply do not have the driven ability to draw air through high static resistances, which is why radiators that have electric fans are very narrow and in some instances have up to two fans to serve them, 300Tdi radiators have a deep 4 row core using "flattened" 1/4" cores, mine has 4 rows of 1/2" cores - in Australia a very desirable modification and perhaps if you have a cooling problem you should consider this before changing fans. Some time ago when considering this very conversion I did some bench tests with a borrowed 15" diameter 12 volt DC automotive Davies Craig fan, fitted to a standard cowl and a reconditioned 300YDi radiator and it was 40% down on the standard unit. The standard unit was measured in situe with the same anemometer and mearuring "trumpet". When you consider that with the frontal area of a Discovery / Defender and that at over 40MPH the fan isnt required anyway as the air flow is sufficient --- is this a valid conversion ? -- especially when you will not be gaining additional cooling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Why fit an electric fan at all? Just keep the original - it's more powerful, more reliable, simpler and keeps the engine cool in the first place, instead of allowing the engine to get too hot and then struggling to bring it back down. It is also more efficient. Electric fans are a big con - they are only fitted by car manufacturers where the engine bay layout makes fitting an engine driven fan impractical, like where chassis are in the way or on transverse mounted engines. LR (and all other manufacturers) go to extreme lengths to maximise performance and fuel efficiency (especially nowdays), so if fitting an electric fan had any benefit, they'd be doing it in the factories... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 the TDi landrover engines are naturally over cooled anyway, and so the engine driven fan isn't normally required under day to day driving - as such it's basically an extra mass for the engine to turn, sapping a small amount of power, and increasing fuel consumption. the idea behind the electrci fan is to 1) remove the spinning mass, improving power and fuel efficiency slightly and 2) allow the fan to be switched off when wading or travelling through muddy water to stop cr*p being flung around the engine bay. it also gives extra cooling when needed, rather than constantly, which enables the engine to reach peak temperature quicker, thus again improving efficiency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The mass if the fan is small, and when the vehicle is in motion the fan blades' angel of attack is reduced by the movement of the ram airflow through the rad and cowl, so it has virtually no turning resistance in normal operation. At a crawl or at stand still, their is no ram airflow, so the angle of attack increases and the fan suffers drag, but that is exactly when you need a fan. An engine driven fan is more efficient than an electric one because there are no changes of electrical state between kinetic, EM and electrical (and back again), with all of the associated losses and inefficiencies of each change of state - the energy for the viscous fan is kinetic and is taken directly from the crank shaft, making it very efficient. As I said, the fact that the fan is always turning, albeit idly when the engine is cold and the viscous unit not locked, means that the rad and thus the engine temperatures are kept optimal at all times, rather than allowed to rise above ideal and then struggled to lower and suppress (anyone knows that maintaining a constant is easier and more efficient than trying to change a value). The figures of resistance, bhp or fuel consumption quoted by electric fan manufacturers are for engines at high rpm on a bench with no ram airflow - not a real world scenario and deliberately misleading. If any fuel savings or performance increases were available by fitting electric fans in place of viscous or fixed units, all of the premium car manufactures would do so, not only for customer appeal and increased sales but also to reduce the environmental taxes levied on the manufacturers themselves (some of which are based on the average emissions of all their vehicles produced in that tax period). But check under the bonnet of any LR, BMW, Merc, Audi, Jag, RR or Bentley with in-line engines and you'll find they all have viscous fans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boydie Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I have to agree with Snagger on this one, as I said, electric fans simply dont have the power to overcome the static resistance of a 4 row deep radiator core. If you come across any after market electric fan manufacturer who claims other-wise ask them for their specific test results for a radiator of the same depth and gereral dimensions as the Land Rover, I can almost guarantee that they not done them. Note that I said STATIC air resistance. Once the vehicle is moving the characteristics of the fan curves (Kw) and the static resistance (MPa) change constantly with the vehicle speed and air velocity (V) into the radiator inlet. The claimed power drain on the crank-shaft drops with the air flow through the radiator as the fan is not required to do any work and once the bi-metalic spring registers the drop in air temperature across it the fan coupling floats the fan to idle, so the power drain is neutral. If anyone has access to a small video camera install it under the bonnet, go for a drive and film the viscous fan in action while the vehicle is being driven, you will see it hardly ever actually runs. Out here in Oz we have more than enough deep rivers to ford, the standard practice is to wade the river first checking for snags, hidden rocks, drowned tree branches etc and in the northern areas of Queensland and the NT for salties (large crockadilia). Then cover the front of the LD with a tarpaulin that goes from the bonnet across the radiator and under to the front of the wheel arches and drive through the river, once a bow wave has been achieved -- and maintained -- very little water actually enters the engine bay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L835 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Not that this helps! but I've been meaning to fit an electric fan to my 110 200 tdi, having removed the viscous fan and put the xeng switch in the lower hose, but haven't done it yet. Anyway having just towed 1.5t, 120 miles home yesterday, which was quite warm, the temp guage didn't pass the mid point, so do we realy need a fan anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 what about fitting them to the front of the radiator then reversing the polarity of the wiring? this worked on my conversion as there was no way an electric fan would fit between the water pump and the radiator. never actually had to use mine yet even when towing up long hills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Murphy Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 what about fitting them to the front of the radiator then reversing the polarity of the wiring? this worked on my conversion as there was no way an electric fan would fit between the water pump and the radiator. never actually had to use mine yet even when towing up long hills. Won't the fan blades be the wrong shape to push air through in the opposite direction ? I thought they were shaped to work effectively in one direction only. Mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Won't the fan blades be the wrong shape to push air through in the opposite direction ? I thought they were shaped to work effectively in one direction only. Mo You dont need to reverse the wiring and run the fan the wrong way... you just keep the fan facing the same way but put it in front rather than behind?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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