OT: PC Problem driving me up the wall

[FridgeFreezer]

Sorry for the OT but there are some clever sorts on here who may be able to help.

I've just bought a shiny new PC (well, barebones kit and then HDDs, graphics card, DVD-RW etc.) and for the life of me can't make Windows XP Pro install itself. The problem(s) seem to be that the new PC has SATA ports and a PCI-E slot (which weren't invented when XP came out), and probably numerous other things that could upset a sensitive OS

If you try with the normal (SP1) CD, it just throws a hissy fit and crashes to the blue screen of death with a Stop 0x00000078 code from pci.sys.

Disabling the PCI-E graphics card gets it a bit further but no cigar.

Slipstreaming the CD with SP2 or SP3 doesn't seem to help

Configuring the hard drive controller as SATA, AHCI or even IDE seems to make no difference - Windows setup can see the SATA DVD-RW, the SATA system drive, and the RAID5 array no problem - it's just once it's installed it has a fit

Slipstreaming the CD with SP2 or 3 using nLite and adding the NVIDIA SATA/Raid drivers and removing all the irrelevant IDE/SCSI drivers naturally present on the CD gets it as far as having installed windows, but it then crashes to a blue screen for about 1 nanosecond before rebooting. Safe mode loads some stuff but crashes before it gets to any sort of Windows screen.

Removing extra RAM, HD's and graphics card makes no difference.

A couple of little extra problems are:

- I have no working floppy drive, so I can't do the "press F6 to install RAID drivers" thing during install. Slipstreaming gets past this anyway, or should do. Certainly it manages to install windows without major drama.

- I have nothing else with SATA ports in it, and the new motherboard, although it does have an IDE port, is not easy to connect up now it's in there.

I'm wondering if a newer XP install CD may be in order, although the idea of paying the £100 Micro$oft tax on the offchance of it working is unappealing. Likewise, "upgrading" to Vista doesn't really float my boat either, weighing my new PC down with an even fatter OS seems like a step backwards. I'd junk Windows altogether and defect to Ubuntu or similar if I didn't need the use of a couple of Windows programs. Anyone happen to know where there may be a copy of XP pro SP2/3 at my favourite price?

In case it makes a massive difference, the PC is:

Asus M3N78-VM

AMD X2 Dual Core 5600 CPU

4Gb Ram (and yes I've tried it with only 2G)

ATI Radeon HD 3650 512MB graphics card (tried it unplugged/disabled, no difference)

SATA DVD-RW (which works, Windows setup will boot from it happily)

SATA C: drive (again, Setup can see it, format it, and install to it)

3x SATA HD's as a RAID5 array (Setup can see it, although unplugging/disabling RAID mode etc. makes no difference)

A finger of fudge to anyone who can make the blasted thing work!

[cipx2]

Did you check if the BIOS is up to the latest version (0702 - released some weeks ago, which corrects some RAID issues)?

Also, some 0x78 pci.sys errors were solved by simply using a different install CD of the same SP. SP2 should work (avoid slipstreaming if possible).

P.S.: Always clean install, don't use resume/repair/etc.

[Kim Horsevad]

Sorry for the OT but there are some clever sorts on here who may be able to help.

I've just bought a shiny new PC (well, barebones kit and then HDDs, graphics card, DVD-RW etc.) and for the life of me can't make Windows XP Pro install itself. The problem(s) seem to be that the new PC has SATA ports and a PCI-E slot (which weren't invented when XP came out), and probably numerous other things that could upset a sensitive OS

If you try with the normal (SP1) CD, it just throws a hissy fit and crashes to the blue screen of death with a Stop 0x00000078 code from pci.sys.

Disabling the PCI-E graphics card gets it a bit further but no cigar.

Slipstreaming the CD with SP2 or SP3 doesn't seem to help

Configuring the hard drive controller as SATA, AHCI or even IDE seems to make no difference - Windows setup can see the SATA DVD-RW, the SATA system drive, and the RAID5 array no problem - it's just once it's installed it has a fit

Slipstreaming the CD with SP2 or 3 using nLite and adding the NVIDIA SATA/Raid drivers and removing all the irrelevant IDE/SCSI drivers naturally present on the CD gets it as far as having installed windows, but it then crashes to a blue screen for about 1 nanosecond before rebooting. Safe mode loads some stuff but crashes before it gets to any sort of Windows screen.

Removing extra RAM, HD's and graphics card makes no difference.

A couple of little extra problems are:

- I have no working floppy drive, so I can't do the "press F6 to install RAID drivers" thing during install. Slipstreaming gets past this anyway, or should do. Certainly it manages to install windows without major drama.

- I have nothing else with SATA ports in it, and the new motherboard, although it does have an IDE port, is not easy to connect up now it's in there.

I'm wondering if a newer XP install CD may be in order, although the idea of paying the £100 Micro$oft tax on the offchance of it working is unappealing. Likewise, "upgrading" to Vista doesn't really float my boat either, weighing my new PC down with an even fatter OS seems like a step backwards. I'd junk Windows altogether and defect to Ubuntu or similar if I didn't need the use of a couple of Windows programs. Anyone happen to know where there may be a copy of XP pro SP2/3 at my favourite price?

In case it makes a massive difference, the PC is:

Asus M3N78-VM

AMD X2 Dual Core 5600 CPU

4Gb Ram (and yes I've tried it with only 2G)

ATI Radeon HD 3650 512MB graphics card (tried it unplugged/disabled, no difference)

SATA DVD-RW (which works, Windows setup will boot from it happily)

SATA C: drive (again, Setup can see it, format it, and install to it)

3x SATA HD's as a RAID5 array (Setup can see it, although unplugging/disabling RAID mode etc. makes no difference)

A finger of fudge to anyone who can make the blasted thing work!

Hi there...

I hate windows, so cant offer much advise there....

My advise would be to install the newest Kubuntu (a linux clone wit a really good graphical user interface).

Like you I have some really old programs with needs a windows to run. The problem is solved by installing a virtualbox on top of the kubuntu install. This program "virtualbox" is capable of holding several virtual machines. You simply define the properties for you machine and then install XP, Vista, OS/2 or whatever into it.

The "guest" operating system (the one inside the virtual box) runs simoultanously with the host operating system. You can use both systems at once, and have the security of knowing that the fragile windows is on constant life-support by a robust linux...

The principle of virtual machines is used in server systems, where different customers can share a single powerfull server by installing several operating systems in different virtual machines. Each customer has full control (root /admin password) of his virtual machine - the hosting company has root for the host machine. This gives a really secure solution.

There are full net/audio/printer/peripherial support from the host system to the guest system.

If you need help with installing some of the linux-components you are welcome to contact me by PM or email: kim@horsevad.dk

[V8 Freak]

See PM FF.

Neil

[Retroanaconda]

Vista really isn't all as bad as a lot of people would have you think. It's only slow and bogs down your system if you're trying to put it on a system not designed for it. The specs you list are very much capable of running Vista.

Unless you have legacy apps you need to run, Vista is the best option I find

I still run XP on my laptop, only because with 1GB of RAM it doesn't quite cut the mustard

[TomG]

Not sure if you've already seen these but may help troubleshooting:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/324103

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/316401

[pugwash]

put a FDD in to force a RAID driver in- slipstreaming hasn't ime ever installed a third party raid driver although it thinks it can- the faulty hex ref is a memory address on the graphcis card that may indicate a dodgy graphics card- i certainly wouldn't rule that out. XP has no probelm runnig PCI-E or SATA (SATA has beena round at least 5 years now- i had an Asus A8Nx deluxe MoBo that had a raid 0+1 on it 5 years ago running XP pro no probs)

Xp install CDs dont really make a lot of different as theres only actually 6 different varieties- some which OEM, Retail, Upgrade and each of the these three in Original, SP1 and SP2- discs are interchangeable according to your licence- ie any SP2 retail disc will work with any SP2 retail seriel number.

Really XP is pretty stable being based on NT4.0 and if you are having so many BSOD it would suggest a installation problem.

can i be clear that you are running 3 HDDs in RAID 5 and one HDD as a standalone boot disk? In which case it is entirely possible to setup windows on the C drive then add the riad arrray later- you'll have to do some fiddling to get the raid array to work properly but its not impossible. Load the OS to C and add HDD later.

have you got a known good video card by any chance to check install?

Do a really basic intall with one HDD, and a known good graphics card and see what happens- i'm betting you've got a hardware fault somewhere- if you get really stuck you can come and steal some bits out of my shiny PC if you want!

[lansalot]

Back to basics.

Everthing out of the case.

Plug one HD, one memory stick, one optical and one gfx card in. Power it up on the desk. See what happens.

It can be a slow process, but it's the only way to work through it.

Even if you don't want to run the likes of ubuntu etc right now, you can download and run memtest86 to (hopefully) rule out the memory being a problem.

[steve_a]

during blue screen, you can hit f6 to install a third party host driver. Make a floppy up with the driver on.

[dollythelw]

have some of the factories closed down? Ive got some little houses if you need them John

[gruntus]

Hi there,

It sounds to me like you aren't getting the right driver in for the controller during install

.

Go to the web site (using a freinds pc) of the controller manufacture and get the latest driver for it for XP.you will probably need to add the driver using floppy but a usb floppy borrowed should suffice.

When you install the os using the CD one of the first things mentioned is to press F6 to add a third party driver. Press f6 at this point have your usb floppy connected / inserted at this point and once the drive is read the driver to be used will be displayed.

This was a very common problem with servers in the good old days and on some PCs that use raid.

One point to make is that you should configure your raid set on the controller before installing the os (should be able to do this by selecting the raid controller during POST and follow its config menu) as doing so after may scrub your os.

When installing the os after the raid set is created the os will see the multiple drives as just one partition and hence the raid will be invisible to XP during and after install.

Hope this helps and sorry if the diction is carp as I have had to reply by blackberry!

Cheers

Grant

[lansalot]

IIRC, you can't F6 a driver in from a USB floppy on XP SP1 - USB isn't supported until XP SP2 (though a slipstreamed SP2/3 disk will work fine).

Can't remember what order the driver is loaded either, so if it isn't until after the USB module has loaded then XP won't see the USB disk. Good luck with that though !

(Though as I said, you shouldn't even be messing with RAID yet - see if you can install to a single HD first)

[FridgeFreezer]

Righty dokey...

The CPU & Fan etc. were assembled by the supplier and tested, I just plugged the drives and GFX card in (and then uplugged...)

The BIOS is the latest version

I am just downloading a new XP install CD so that's the next thing to try.

I have dug up a floppy drive so will try adding the drivers that way.

If that fails I am sorely tempted to go the Linux route as suggested, I don't need XP most of the time and frankly MS stuff mostly sucks. The virtual machine would probably run faster than my old XP box ran natively anyway

James - I find it amusing you say Vista isn't that bad... and then that you can't run it in just 1Gb of RAM that's exactly what I'm talking about. Also, quite frankly b*ll*cks to spending out for a new OS or lining microsoft's pockets any more than is absolutely necessary.

Pugwash - yes I'm running 3x HDD's in RAID5 but putting the board into RAID mode means the other drives (DVD & system HD) become RAID entities too, and I've seen a few pages suggesting that installing in SATA or EHCI mode and then switching back to RAID mode might just lose all the data as Grant said. The RAID5 is native on the motherboard, not a software RAID from windows as many are.

Lansalot - I've tried the basic install, one HD, no gfx card (on-board GFX only), 2Gb RAM, nothing doing

Jez - I think your little factories & houses are best left connected to each other, the little people don't like having to rebuild the roads and sometimes rebuild them wrong

Neil thanks for your PM's, most helpful!

I will come back when I've tried this different XP CD, I've known it to be an issue in the past (my copy of XP throws a slightly different error to the lodger's copy of XP, even though they're the same!)

[lansalot]

I am just downloading a new XP install CD so that's the next thing to try.

Err. Think I'm getting closer to the cause of the problem here.....

Download Ubuntu and see if the machine will boot and load that - that will rule out any underlying hardware problems. No install necessary.

[FridgeFreezer]

Err. Think I'm getting closer to the cause of the problem here.....

It's not a random dodgy copy, I know better than to try an ISO from a random torrent it's from a friend who has made an image of a known good XP CD and we're transferring it by FTP, hence downloading.

[lansalot]

Lol, fair enough. I'd try ubuntu in the meantime, just for component validation. Ubuntu will also have memtest on it, so you can run that to soak-test the memory subsystem.

[FridgeFreezer]

Hmm, the new XP CD crashes after loading drivers, just as it says "starting windows", with the code STOP 0x0000007b (0xf78d2524 0xc0000034 0x00000000 0x00000000), or if it gets as far as installing Windows, STOP 0x0000007b 0xbacc3524 0xc0000034. Looks like it's time to go back 10 years and install a floppy drive bl**dy windows.

[LandyManLuke]

have you tried a Live linux CD? something like Knoppix or one of the many other Live versions?

[LR90]

Jon, have you run a memtest86 on it yet?

[Guest noggy]

you can get free linux bootdisks and install disks, just google it!

linux kanes winblows AR5E anyway!!

and if you need to use MS programs, just use "wine"

and if you want to use the likes of MS office, just get "open office" a opensource better copy of ms office.

[FridgeFreezer]

Well, fingers crossed it's sorted now - I had to do an archaeological dig in the lodger's box of deceased PC hardware for one of those "floppy drive" things off of the 80's, then had to install it in my old PC to make the disks, then had to remove it and swap over to the new PC and get Windows to install using the "press F6 to install SCSI drivers" option. Ahhh, I'm so glad I've never paid for anything Microsoft have done - if I had I think I'd want my money back and Bill Gates' spleen in a crusty bap.

Eventually it seems to be working - so I've dodged the path of righteousness that is Linux once again (Yes I know it's great but I'm a luddite, the lodger gives me enough hassle about it as it is )

All I've got to do now is transfer all my files and settings across - how hard can it be?

[V8 Freak]

Glad to hear it's alive John......

Neil

[pugwash]

Well, fingers crossed it's sorted now - I had to do an archaeological dig in the lodger's box of deceased PC hardware for one of those "floppy drive" things off of the 80's, then had to install it in my old PC to make the disks, then had to remove it and swap over to the new PC and get Windows to install using the "press F6 to install SCSI drivers" option. Ahhh, I'm so glad I've never paid for anything Microsoft have done - if I had I think I'd want my money back and Bill Gates' spleen in a crusty bap.

Eventually it seems to be working - so I've dodged the path of righteousness that is Linux once again (Yes I know it's great but I'm a luddite, the lodger gives me enough hassle about it as it is )

All I've got to do now is transfer all my files and settings across - how hard can it be?

AFAIK its the only thing taht you HAVE To have a FDD for.

had to reinstall the work server the other day- backups allow a system state restore as well as exchange and all data BUT you have to have a running OS first. Phone dell up to check the procedure (as its a supported machine but didn't want to wait 24 hours)-

"yes sir all the drivers and disk are there to do a clean install"

"so the Raid driver is native is it?"

"no you need a floppy disc for that"

"but you wouldn't allow me to spec a FDD when i bought the server!"

"oh we'll send you a program"

so they send me a really very cool little program that reformats a USB stick and somehow forces the OS to see it as a HDD (after i had created a bootable partition first using partition magic from a CD copied on after getting to the C: prompt by using the Server 2003 CD)- all very clever and allowed me to use the pendrive as a FDD which helped!

Now i can't use the pendrive for anything else though whcih is annoying as it was a very tasty ruggedised 2gb jobby

[FridgeFreezer]

That pendrive utility sounds pretty useful, although being able to "unformat" it again would be a help!

Have the same trouble with my laptop, it has no FDD and the only way to flash the BIOS is through DOS. But Windows 2K doesn't actually boot to a proper DOS prompt ever if I could format a USB stick to get past that, it'd be cool.

[lansalot]

That pendrive utility sounds pretty useful, although being able to "unformat" it again would be a help!

Have the same trouble with my laptop, it has no FDD and the only way to flash the BIOS is through DOS. But Windows 2K doesn't actually boot to a proper DOS prompt ever if I could format a USB stick to get past that, it'd be cool.

No program available to flash bios from within windows ? (guessing not by sound of its age...)