Unsworth Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Hi all.. Not asking for sympathy here.. But last night I took ym freshly painted 90 up to the local retail park to see some mates.. After being there 5 minutes a Police car (Traffic cop in a BMW M5) Looked at my land rover and stopped immediatly and pulled up to my window and questioned my registration plate. Long story short I got a £60 fine!. I have a show plate displaying "UNSWORTH" which covers up the hole in my winch bumper (I have not fitted a winch yet). But I also left the real reg plate displayed in the windscreen (It was fitted to the grille but I resprayed the grille and simply forgot to put it back on, So was an act on my behalf).. I had a polite attitude with the traffic Officer in the hope he might give me a warning.. But it didnt work so I accepted he was right and avoided any arguments. He also took a photo of the front of my 90 He gave me a green slip of paper "Fixed Penalty notice (non endorsable offence)" WHich basically states all my details and states "registration plate not fixed in accordance with regulations".. This gives me the impression that the "UNSWORTH" plate on the bumper didnt matter, It was the Vehicles reg in the window. Im not arguing the fact I was in the wrong, But I have 28 days to pay the hefty £60 fine. I have never been in trouble with the law and as I have 28 days I thought its worth a shot to appeal to the local police (I probably wont win but its worth a shot).. So whats the regulations regarding number plates?. Im not trying to worm out of my responsibility as I could have fitted the reg plate in the right place.. But its worth a shot?. Many thanks.. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Lesson Learned pay up and move on, I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 driving around with the plate in the windscreen is a tad cheeky, doing so with a show plate with your name across the front of the car where the real plate should be is not going to help - pay up, and swap the plates round before they pull you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsworth Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 driving around with the plate in the windscreen is a tad cheeky, doing so with a show plate with your name across the front of the car where the real plate should be is not going to help - pay up, and swap the plates round before they pull you again. Yep that was his point.. Which I admitted was my fault etc.. Basically brown nosed him hoping that would workd.. But with a car park full of mates taking the tiddle I told him I was driving home with the landrover as it was and getting my moneys worth as I wasnt wanting to look a T*** changing them infront of P*** taking mates!.. £60 is a bit steep but it was my fault, What wound me up was the fact as I got out the car and went to set off he was P****** about with my mates saying how his car was faster than theirs and he can legally jump lights and he was saying this to a bunch of lads with Highly modified 306's and Scoobies which had invalid insurance and they was section 59 worthy.. Seems this time it was a case of politeness gets you no where!. Im wound up as I have helped the police a LOT down my area tracking down thefts etc (Being a witness) and reporting crimes.. But nothing is ever done about it. Suppose theres on lesson involved and thanks to my attitude it got me out of 3 points aswell! I like how he mentioned how many defenders are getting stolen yet he didnt check a thing on mine till I suggested him to do so and I didnt get a producer to go to the police staion to proove that I have changed my plates!.. Seems they are only interested in money.. Started to really loose respect for some of them, However I was in the wrong but I thought a simple warning would have been adaquate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat_pending Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Oh dear, so you had 2 front number plates fitted, a legal and an illegal plate. This could all get very confusing, for starters there are anomalies between what is allowed for MOT and what is "illegal" under construction and use regs, both for type of plate and possibly position. All the MOT states, as far as position goes, is that the registration plates are fixed vertically, or as close to vertical as is reasonably practical. Construction and use may be more specific on position. I will try and check. The problem is,the copper may have been talking out of his arse and may well have issued you with a ticket for an offence that you are not guilty of, but, the only way you are going to get the details of the offence you "may" have committed is to choose to not pay the fixed penalty and take it to court. In this case they are bound to supply you with all their evidence, and tell you the exact offence you are accused of to enable you to produce a defence. Unfortunately at that point you may well realise that you are indeed guilty, or if you choose to fight and are subsequently found guilty, the fine and costs will be considerably more than 60 quid. Most people just pay up, even when the offence they've been ticketed for is dubious. It wont matter what we come up with here, it's how it goes in court. It's a gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unsworth Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Oh dear, so you had 2 front number plates fitted, a legal and an illegal plate. This could all get very confusing, for starters there are anomalies between what is allowed for MOT and what is "illegal" under construction and use regs, both for type of plate and possibly position. All the MOT states, as far as position goes, is that the registration plates are fixed vertically, or as close to vertical as is reasonably practical. Construction and use may be more specific on position. I will try and check. The problem is,the copper may have been talking out of his arse and may well have issued you with a ticket for an offence that you are not guilty of, but, the only way you are going to get the details of the offence you "may" have committed is to choose to not pay the fixed penalty and take it to court. In this case they are bound to supply you with all their evidence, and tell you the exact offence you are accused of to enable you to produce a defence. Unfortunately at that point you may well realise that you are indeed guilty, or if you choose to fight and are subsequently found guilty, the fine and costs will be considerably more than 60 quid. Most people just pay up, even when the offence they've been ticketed for is dubious. It wont matter what we come up with here, it's how it goes in court. It's a gamble. Yeah I am not confident enough to go to court about it.. Plus £60 is only a day or twos work for me.. And going to court would only take more time up and if I lost it could be tripple figures.. Was thinking of just writing to the local cop shop but on second thoughts they didnt care about a car accident I was involved in where two cars which are highly damaged still on the road!.. Its just one lesson I will have to learn from.. But im wound up that it was only a £30 fine last week.. And now its £60!!.. Lets just hope its a case of what goes around comes around and hope one day it comes down to him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white90 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 One moment £60 is a lot I'm not arguing the fact I was in the wrong, But I have 28 days to pay the hefty £60 fine. I have never been in trouble with the law and as I have 28 days I thought its worth a shot to appeal to the local police (I probably wont win but its worth a shot).. Then Yeah I am not confident enough to go to court about it.. Plus £60 is only a day or twos work for me.. And going to court would only take more time up and if I lost it could be triple figures.. Take it as Lesson pay up fit the correct plate and move on the angst debating and going on about it is not worth the £60 Go to court you'll end up worse off and look an Arse when the fine is £200 This is the Defender Forum not the police did me for a dodgy plate if you need more help try this place:HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 But with a car park full of mates taking the tiddle I told him I was driving home with the landrover as it was and getting my moneys worth as I wasnt wanting to look a T*** changing them infront of P*** taking mates!.. Sorry fella, but i think you have your answer here. If you didnt want to pay the £60, you should have offered to change the plates there and then regardless of your mates. If you'd offered to, that might have settled things there, but you told them you weregoing to carry on driving it as it was when they wanted to fine you. I doubt you'll get the fine dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 From the pics of your truck in members vehicle forum showing the "UNSWORTH" plate I was wondering just how long it would be before the Police took interest. If I was you I'd pay up and keep my nose clean you don't need a bad reputation as a young driver with the local Police James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I've only ever had one fixed penalty notice like that, which was given to me by some nice traffic cops at Falkirk Cruise for having an exhaust that was "too loud" They looked the part, had the VOSA boys there and were out with a decibel meter, then it all started to get a bit cowboy. The guy asked me to "rev it up a bit" then proudly stated my car was "104db" which was too loud so he was issuing me with a £60 fixed penalty notice. No mention of the actual limit, and no proper testing procedure made me think the whole process was highly dubious. I took the ticket, and then looked into it some more. Turns out the C&U regs does give a limit, and it also gives some very nice testing procedures. From memory it was something along the lines of two readings need to be taken 7M from the SIDE of the vehicle in an open space, and that reading cant exceed 80db. It also stated that the engine had to be at half its maximum permissible RPM, or half the RPM at which maximum power occurred, and there should be two readings taken from either side of the vehicle and averaged. So me randomly revving the engine, and the copper standing about a foot away from the tailpipe with the decibel meter were both rubbish, so i chucked the ticket in the drawer and waited for the court summons. Few months later i got a letter thru saying "on this particular occasion we are not going to persue this matter". Clearly they'd looked at it and thought there was no way they'd get a conviction, so chucked it. Whether the same would happen in your case i'm not sure. I would certainly look up the appropriate regulations though, just to see where you stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cieranc Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I told him I was driving home with the landrover as it was and getting my moneys worth Then you've got 28 days worth of irritating a copper ahead of you. £60 is a bit steep but it was my fault £60 is not a bit steep. Take it to court, then see how steep it is. Seems this time it was a case of politeness gets you no where!. Im wound up as I have helped the police a LOT down my area tracking down thefts etc (Being a witness) and reporting crimes.. Where were you expecting it to get you? You knew the plate was illegal, so why take the hump when you get a ticket for it? Being helpful to the police does not give you immunity from the law. Unless you're a registered grass. Seems they are only interested in money.. Yes, because that's the copper's own personal bonus of course Started to really loose respect for some of them, However I was in the wrong but I thought a simple warning would have been adaquate Losing respect for the why? Because they didn't let you off? Maybe you thought a simple warning would have been adequate, but that's not your decision to make. I don't get it. You knew before you went out the plate was illegal, you admitted to him it was then you take the hump when you get done for it, and lose respect for the copper doing his job. Why not just take it on the chin? Part 2, section 6, paragraphs 2 and 3 spell the law out quite clearly. http://www.opsi.gov....20010561_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco_al Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 this may help (or not) This paragraph requires each plate to be fixed - (a) in a vertical position or, where that is not possible, in a position as close to the vertical as is reasonably practicable, and (b) in such a position that in normal daylight the characters of the registration mark are easily distinguishable, in the case of a plate fixed on the front of the vehicle, from in front of the vehicle and, in the case of a plate fixed on the rear of the vehicle or trailer, from behind the vehicle or trailer. taken from Display of Registration Plates website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Henson Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Sorry to be blunt, but if you do something illegal, then you should expect to be prosecuted for it, not expect to get away with it. Les. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 not your first brush with the law is it Unsworth? You'll never learn, pay up and stop clogging up forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 I think the point here is was it actually illegal? Is there anything that states you must only display one numberplate-like plaque on the front of your vehicle? I doubt it, becuase you see HGV's running around with "STEVE" or whatever on a numberplate stuck to the front of it. The real plate was on display, in the windscreen. If theres nothing that states you cant have another numberplate like thing on your vehicle then the fact the "Unsworth" plate was there is irrelevant. The question then is simply does the real plate being on display in the windscreen constitute it being displayed illegally. Just because he got a ticket doesn't mean it was illegal. Mate of mine got banned recently for dangerous driving, he'd turned off the main trunk onto a glen road that runs up to his house, and set off up the road at a reasonable pace. He was being followed by an unmarked car, who decided to follow him up this glen road. About a mile up the road he turns off into his driveway, unfortunately as the coppers didnt know the road very well he'd pulled a reasonable distance ahead of them by this point, and didnt see him turn off (its a particularly windy road). They drove up the glen flat out on blues and twos "chasing" him, and eventually gave up after 10mins, before turning up at his door the next day. They charged him with dangerous driving, and stood up in court saying they chased him up the glen for 10 miles, but he was driving so fast they couldnt catch him. They also claimed he overtook people walking dogs and suchlike at ludicrous speed, presumably because there were dogwalkers further up the glen. Clearly they were Mildly miffed off that they'd made a ass of themselves driving up the glen for 10 miles when he wasnt even there, and made up a whole load of carp for the court, and guess who the judge believed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Unsworth knew he was in the wrong and either pays the fine or goes to court. He requested info regarding the number plate regulations and these have been supplied. This is the Defender forum for technical queries. I'm not going to let this thread turn into a general discussion about how the police can potentially get things wrong or other wider issues. Thread closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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