LPG and MegaSquirt

[FridgeFreezer]

Right, in the light of day that makes a bit more sense, ta. I'd imagine then that if you set your injectors far enough down the manifold that there's relatively little chance of leaching with a V8. Is there an optimum point to have them, or is it a case of "as far down as is practical"?

Because I don't really know where you're going with this line of questioning, I'd say that although the V8 setup is an example of having the injectors firing pretty close to the back of the valves, it is not super-critical. TBI setups work well enough on millions of cars. The gains from this sort of thing are more to do with being able to tune something properly and have it run reliably than detail differences. In short - don't over-think it

[Dave W]

As FF says, I don't think it matters too much and, depending on what manifold you use, figuring out the exact placement of the LPG injectors is going to have more to do with practical implications than theoretical ones. I think that's why all the LPG injection systems I've seen don;'t mount the injectors directly to the manifold but, instead, use a "rubber" tube from the injector to the manifold. It's also easier to sort the feed out to the injectors by fitting them to a small block.

[woodytz]

There are dozens of vaporisers on the market with a price range from cheap to not so cheap.

Depending on the horsepower of your engine and how hard you want to push the pedals round depends largley on the type you need.

My own 3500 is running lpg injection, using a vaporiser designed to run a max HP output of 100bhp,i hav,nt had any problems with power output.

All gas injectors are flow rated again dependant on horsepower.We now have a budget range that you tune youself by drilling the delivery nozzle out,they work really well and are keenly priced.

Injector nipples need to be as close to the petrol ones as possible,if you can angle them at about 45 degrees all the better and the pipes as short as is practicle, they dont need to all be same lenth as some people think.

if any one wants pics of any paricular part of the lpg system let me know.

If anyone has a big horsepower engine ,then you will want the Keihin injectors and a Prins vaporiser,not cheap but will run a supercharged 600hp no problem.

keep the questions coming.

woody

[ballcock]

Nooooooooo, you don't want an MS2! MS-1 is plenty fine and means you can easily use maps & settings from others on here. MS2 is more complicated than you need.

I thought Ms2 was an improvement over 1, is it the same board with a different processor or a completely different unit? Are there any disadvantages using Ms2 other than having to adapt the maps to suite? Also I'm about to replace my v8 are there any mods to be done before switching the engine?

[Hybrid_From_Hell]

IMHO (and a grown up will be along sortly to rubbish me ) there is

for a Rover V8 nothing that MS2 really does that you really need

Yes you can have it run the steper motor (PWM 2 wire does the job on MS1 more IMHO thna well enough

yes it has a bigger table for spark and fuel vs the MS1 V3 12 x 12 table, but its a 1950s designed rover V8 not a

2010 VVT tubro nutter bar*tard V5 intercooled snot gobbling hydro powered gurgler motor with NOS and traction control

Actaully MS1 will run the NOS and TC but not snot gobbling injectors

MS1 V3 029v will do 99.99999% of everything you wnat form a Rover / V8 and then some, and there are a raft of users of THAT syetem

here who can help, I for one now refuse (not in any way other than I havn't he tinme) to help people who ignore MS1 V3 029v, go their own route

for F knows why and then say "Er HELP - it won't run / start / accellerate etc) I have done help on these in the past and ended

up with a laptop with a mass of ECU Version Varinats all of which nneded time for me to learn and tune into (no pun intended)

so I now (and I think others too) say MS 1 V3 ? we will help, you chose some odd ball and different for no real rerason - and you have proobelsms

cough - you sort them them.

MS 2 does have advantages, but, IMVHO Ms1 V3 029V has more going for it, esp here over any other Megasquirt config

And now, over to the grown ups

Nige

[Dave W]

I thought Ms2 was an improvement over 1, is it the same board with a different processor or a completely different unit? Are there any disadvantages using Ms2 other than having to adapt the maps to suite? Also I'm about to replace my v8 are there any mods to be done before switching the engine?

It's the same basic board as the MS1 with a daughter card that replaces the CPU with a better CPU and a bipolar stepper motor driver. There are advantages to the MS2 with code improvements in the Extra code for things like closed loop idle control. I've used MS2 for both LS1 and RV8 engines and it works quite well, especially the stepper IAC with the new closed loop idle algorithms.

Having said that if you stick with MS1 until MS3 comes of age and use a PWM IAC it does have the advantage that you can get pretty much all your connections through the DB37 without having to squeeze another connector in. Even driving the coil packs yourself (as opposed to EDIS) you can still run 4 spark outputs, fan control, switchable map, RPM output, crank and cam sensors through the DB37.

As HFH says, you need to bear in mind what support you're likely to need, it's always easier to go with the flow, if you go your own way it's more rewarding (IMV) but you have to be prepared for a steep learning curve and some pain if it all goes tits up.

[FridgeFreezer]

I thought Ms2 was an improvement over 1, is it the same board with a different processor or a completely different unit? Are there any disadvantages using Ms2 other than having to adapt the maps to suite? Also I'm about to replace my v8 are there any mods to be done before switching the engine?

MS2 is an add-on daughter board that replaces the CPU in the MegaSquirt unit, so the main board will be the same. However, the disadvantages are that it was always intended as a development stepping stone for the MS-III, hence it's more complicated and because it can do more, people have added a lot of stuff you will never need/want/use that makes it more complicated to setup.

The main disadvantage is if you fit MS2 and have trouble getting it running, most of us here will have no clue what's wrong.

[Quagmire]

*Apologies for the mini hijack*

Could any versions of MS drive the stepper motor on my closed loop LPG then? To control fuelling?

[FridgeFreezer]

Could any versions of MS drive the stepper motor on my closed loop LPG then? To control fuelling?

Not for fuelling unless you want to write some new software for the ECU. MS2 will drive an idle stepper valve, but I'm not sure you could frig that to control fuelling without eactually re-making the ECU's firmware.

Easier to swap the stepper for something else that can be controlled by injector pulses / PWM, then MS can drive it directly from the injector output.

[woodytz]

*Apologies for the mini hijack*

Could any versions of MS drive the stepper motor on my closed loop LPG then? To control fuelling?

i would,nt have thought that MS will do any better job than the feedback system you already have.

If it was mine i,d ditch the stepper and go open loop FWIW.

cheers Woody

[Quagmire]

Its more that my open loop is pretty basic in that it aims for stoich the whole time. With MS I could presumably set AFR targets for different conditions. For example I should be able to go leaner than stoich at cruise, to get a bit more economy...

And why have two boxes, if one could do the whole thing?

Oh well, two boxes it will be for now...

[FridgeFreezer]

Its more that my open loop is pretty basic in that it aims for stoich the whole time.

You mean closed-loop, open-loop doesn't aim for anything

[Quagmire]

lol- thanks for pointing that out! All my morning posts turn out to be gibberish don't they?

[FridgeFreezer]

lol- thanks for pointing that out! All my morning posts turn out to be gibberish don't they?

At least it's only mornings - I can post gibberish 24 hours a day

[heath robinson]

I've spoken to Tinley Tech, and they've recommended a Bigas injector Rl21 double and Valtek injectors. I can't find out a vast amount about either of these things bar the sales blurb, and a few vague hints that the Valtek stuff might not be much cop (Admittedly this came from a Scooby owner on an lpg forum, and I've never been sure how much you can really trust someone who has those neoprene strings on the arms of their sunglasses...). Does anyone run the OMVL R90E reducer? It seems to do the same thing, but for less cash, and is rated up to 6 litres.

Does anyone know much about these products?

Also, has anyone found out if you can run the Vialle LPI injectors from the 'squirt? I've tried to get some more information about them, but they've not replied yet.

In light of what's been said about pre-priming the LPG system, I think I have a cunning plan... the switch from my old system has three positions, lpg, nothing, and petrol (The nothing is to use up the petrol in the crab bowls).

I'll take the thing apart later, but if it's a three position switch, I'm thinking that I could have it as follows...

1. Petrol (Petrol pump on, LPG solenoids off)

2. Prime (Whichever fuel it's already on, but with both fuel supply systems on to prime)

3. LPG (Petrol pump off, LPG on)

Does this sound feasible?

Thanks

[Bowie69]

The OMVL R90E vapouriser is a very good bit of kit, and fully serviceable, it would be my choice if LPGing another vehicle again, it was faultless on 2 of my vehicles over many miles.

If it is a 3 position switch it's designed for a carb setup, it would work the way you mention, but the switch over would be so fast I think you would barely need it TBH.

[heath robinson]

That's good to know, I had the feeling that I was being pointed toward the more expensive stuff for no discernable gain. What injectors did you use?

Thanks,

Jake

[Bowie69]

Mine was a closed loop draw through system

[heath robinson]

Ah...

[andy2986]

I might be wrong here but The OMVL R90E vaporiser is only suitable for a single point system. Multipoint systems use a different style of vaporiser.

Im sure a grown up (woody )! Will be along to say for sure.

Andy

[Bowie69]

You may be right there... all multi-point systems I have seen have had much smaller vapourisers even on a 4.0l J"$p.

[heath robinson]

I dropped Woody a line over the weekend, so I guess he'll answer this and other questions when he logs in. It's all quite confusing...

That's why I liked the sound of the Vialle liquid injection, although the control has to be about 70 times more precise IIRC. I've sent Emails to various people about this system but have had absolutely zip response. Unlike an electroplating company called Caswell, who went out of their way to import some special ceramic exhaust paint from their american sister company for me. Cheap, too. Basically a similar process as used by the £400 ceramic coating companies, but £20 in a rattle can!