Spec'ing a new defender 90

[--defender--]

Hi,

I'm looking at ordering a new defender 90 hard-top and would like some help in answering a couple of questions.

It'll be used to tow a caravan from time to time. I've used a Disco3 on occasions and that seems to do the job quite well. The van is quite heavy, at nearly 2400k. Would the new 2.4l defender 90 be underpowered. The spec of the engine looks good, with lots of low grunt and the anti-stall feature sounds interesting at getting things moving at low speed. The defender would have some payload too, so it won't be totally empty. This should improve stability?

It's unclear to me whether the basic hard-top model has windows either side at the rear or is that an option too?

Is the basic spec hard-top too agricultural, I've seen a photo of the interior with vinyl seats and it looks a lot better than older models?-

The tow-bar & electrics seem expensive from Land rover, I guess a OEM install is available cheeper?

What's the service interval of this model?

Thanks.

[BogMonster]

I've driven a few Pumas and while I have never towed with one, I reckon it will be one of the best towing engines Land Rover has ever made. The anti stall is brilliant and would work really well getting going with a load on the back, and the general get up and go from really low revs is one of the best things about the Puma.

Standard on our export models, the only glass is in the back door, you can specify either quarterlights, or fixed/sliding back windows (at least I think you still can - you certainly could anyway).

The main thing I would say about any of the hard tops is that with no rear roof lining, they are quite noisy.

[rocky]

Hi, I've just bought one, albeit 2007. It has far more power than my 300 tdi. The interior of the standard 90 is a bit spartan but the dash is quite neat. All I have in the back is a rubber liner at the moment but I am looking to chequerplate the entire loadspace. I have pulled a couple of lorries in the snow this year with the 300 but have yet to tow anything with the tdci, though some guys who have told me they are great.

The other good thing about 90 commercial is the lower road tax in the UK. Regards, rocky

[--defender--]

I've driven a few Pumas and while I have never towed with one, I reckon it will be one of the best towing engines Land Rover has ever made. The anti stall is brilliant and would work really well getting going with a load on the back, and the general get up and go from really low revs is one of the best things about the Puma.

Standard on our export models, the only glass is in the back door, you can specify either quarterlights, or fixed/sliding back windows (at least I think you still can - you certainly could anyway).

The main thing I would say about any of the hard tops is that with no rear roof lining, they are quite noisy.

Thanks BogMonster. First hand feedback of it's towing ability would be great. It all sounds good on paper I agree. Thanks for clearing up the rear quarter lights. I don't want them anyway, as I'll be storing gear in the back and don't want to advertise the fact. I'll place some security film over the rear glass too, the one way reflective type.

Any views on OEM tow brackets?

[--defender--]

Hi, I've just bought one, albeit 2007. It has far more power than my 300 tdi. The interior of the standard 90 is a bit spartan but the dash is quite neat. All I have in the back is a rubber liner at the moment but I am looking to chequerplate the entire loadspace. I have pulled a couple of lorries in the snow this year with the 300 but have yet to tow anything with the tdci, though some guys who have told me they are great.

The other good thing about 90 commercial is the lower road tax in the UK. Regards, rocky

Rocky, thanks for the reply. The reduced road tax is always welcome, TC39 at £200/year - is that right?

I just need a load space and a vehicle that can tow. I've had quite a few landrovers over the years, 1964 S2A, Range Rover & FC101. Currently a Disco3. I like to be able to tinker, self-service and add value. Modern cars are too locked into dealer servicing and before anyone says so, I know the Puma engine is complex and has an ECU too, but the rest of the defender is very basic and hasn't changed a great deal over the years. I'm looking forward to doing a deal and placing an order for my defender 90.

[MJIbex]

The engine will cope fine and it has a very low 1st gear.

The commercial variants now all stem from a basic spec, not "base" or "county" options as previous; you choose to add packs or not. See link below.

No a factory hard top will not have side rear windows, nor can you factory add them, currently. If you get the "Exterior Pack" you get:- Body Coloured Roof & Wheel Arches, Rear Windows either side of the tailgate door, station wagon roof, Tinted Glass, Front Mudflaps, Side Steps, Rear Folding Step.

See:- Land Rover

Factory Tow bar and single electrics is £300.

12,000 miles or 1 year whatever comes soonest.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure althought I ran out of time to finnish reading the blurb the other day, that the lower road tax will be on station wagons too as the vehicle is being harmonised in clasification across europe, from 2011 Model year, which will be about September delivery.

Mark.

[smo]

You have a disco 3 and yet you are considering a defender??

In all seriousness you are crakers, the disco is streets ahead of the defender in comfort, space and towing manners, whilst the defendern does it all well, the disco does it all well and in comfort!!

[rocky]

Road tax for mine was £185 for 1st April 2010. rocky

[--defender--]

Road tax for mine was £185 for 1st April 2010. rocky

Thanks Rocky & MJIbex for info etc. Smo, yes I might be mad but the more I look into it. the more it appeals to me.

[Happyoldgit]

I think the Puma is one of the nicest towing Defenders I've owned ...and I've owned a few.

My only comment is that a 110 would offer a less choppy ride.

[--defender--]

I think the Puma is one of the nicest towing Defenders I've owned ...and I've owned a few.

My only comment is that a 110 would offer a less choppy ride.

I was a bit concerned about the turning circle of a 110, what with a 27ft van behind? Thanks for the Puma comment.

[tacr2man]

You mention 27ft caravan , a 90 may not be big enough :

Maximum sizes for towing

Towing vehicle under 3500kg GVW

Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar)

7.0 metres

Maximum width

2.3 metres

or are you including drawbar in your size ?

I would go for a 110 for towing rather than a 90, more stability, better ride when not towing, all from experience, having towed with 130dc, 110 and 90 . Manoevreability is compromised when you get 130dc with 35ft van, luckily it was in OZ so plenty of room to turn usually .

[JST]

12mths or 12k miles.

new Puma is superb for towing, much better than my chipped td5 was. plenty of grount and a good (for a def) cruising speed vs engine revs vs noise. not as good on fuel towing as my td5 was.

a 110 will be alot more stable than a 90 for towing.

they dont come with the side windows either side of the rear door, and not a factory fit option BUT the dealer can add them in if requested.

they are no comparison to a D3 more, the D3 platform has to be the best LR tow vehicle out there. with the def you loose turning circle, comfort and the autobox!

[--defender--]

You mention 27ft caravan , a 90 may not be big enough :

Maximum sizes for towing

Towing vehicle under 3500kg GVW

Length (excluding the coupling and drawbar)

7.0 metres

Maximum width

2.3 metres

or are you including drawbar in your size ?

I would go for a 110 for towing rather than a 90, more stability, better ride when not towing, all from experience, having towed with 130dc, 110 and 90 . Manoevreability is compromised when you get 130dc with 35ft van, luckily it was in OZ so plenty of room to turn usually .

Correct, that is the shipping length which includes the towing equipment. The 90 on paper is a good vehicle match, the turning circle of the 110 is a small concern tho?

[--defender--]

12mths or 12k miles.

new Puma is superb for towing, much better than my chipped td5 was. plenty of grount and a good (for a def) cruising speed vs engine revs vs noise. not as good on fuel towing as my td5 was.

a 110 will be alot more stable than a 90 for towing.

they dont come with the side windows either side of the rear door, and not a factory fit option BUT the dealer can add them in if requested.

they are no comparison to a D3 more, the D3 platform has to be the best LR tow vehicle out there. with the def you loose turning circle, comfort and the autobox!

The feedback is pointing more to a 110! My D3 is manual anyway. I know the Defender will be less comfortable and noisy. There is far more to go wrong with a D3, I don't use it much, only 9k miles in over two years. The road tax is over £400 a year. I move my van infrequently and I need more storage in my vehicle as I spend most of my time living in my caravan. Having a hardtop 90 or 110 will allow loads of stacker boxes and it'll all be out of view. The D3 is great if I had a family to lug around too. Just me 90% of the time and I know how to fix a basic Land rover. The D3!...

[Happyoldgit]

A 90 does not offer you vast amounts of storage space, in fact I usually find them pretty restrictive. Admittedly you are not going to be able to turn on a dime with a 110 but you quickly learn to adapt your driving to suit.

[--defender--]

A 90 does not offer you vast amounts of storage space, in fact I usually find them pretty restrictive. Admittedly you are not going to be able to turn on a dime with a 110 but you quickly learn to adapt your driving to suit.

Thanks for the feedback.

[--defender--]

A 90 does not offer you vast amounts of storage space, in fact I usually find them pretty restrictive. Admittedly you are not going to be able to turn on a dime with a 110 but you quickly learn to adapt your driving to suit.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Retroanaconda]

Having owned a 90 for two years and using it for a number of things, I would go with a 110 every time unless it's a dedicated off-roader.

If and when I get another to be a 'normal car' type Land Rover, it will be a 110

[Orange]

A couple of points...

The turning circle can be decreased by adjusting the steering locks... Sounds silly to point it out, but it will make a huge improvement. The factory settings on the 110 are ridiculous and as long as the tyres don't rub the radius arms, you are in the clear... I don't know what 'the book' states the turning cicle as, but you can take a large percentage off with 10 minutes and 2 19mm spanners!! (don't forget the copper grease too!!)

The second point is that the TD5 Defender towbar fits the TDCi/Puma Defenders. The only difference is that a couple of the bolts into the underside of the crossmember are smaller on the TDCi/Puma. I managed to pick up a very shiney TD5 towbar complete with ball, nuts and bolts (everything needed to fit it) for £65 at Sodbury. It even still had it's part number stickers on it. The electrics are about £60 from LR (or thereabouts) and are fairly straight forward to fit with a socket up under the inner rear wheelarch, so a self-install could be much cheaper!!

However, WRT the towbar - If you want peace-of-mind and a definite knowledge that it's right for the vehicle/what you are doing with it, spec it with one on it. You might even be able to haggle one into the deal!!

[--defender--]

Having owned a 90 for two years and using it for a number of things, I would go with a 110 every time unless it's a dedicated off-roader.

If and when I get another to be a 'normal car' type Land Rover, it will be a 110

In the process of chatting with my local dealer for a 110 now. No, not a dedicated off-roader...

[--defender--]

A couple of points...

The turning circle can be decreased by adjusting the steering locks... Sounds silly to point it out, but it will make a huge improvement. The factory settings on the 110 are ridiculous and as long as the tyres don't rub the radius arms, you are in the clear... I don't know what 'the book' states the turning cicle as, but you can take a large percentage off with 10 minutes and 2 19mm spanners!! (don't forget the copper grease too!!)

The second point is that the TD5 Defender towbar fits the TDCi/Puma Defenders. The only difference is that a couple of the bolts into the underside of the crossmember are smaller on the TDCi/Puma. I managed to pick up a very shiney TD5 towbar complete with ball, nuts and bolts (everything needed to fit it) for £65 at Sodbury. It even still had it's part number stickers on it. The electrics are about £60 from LR (or thereabouts) and are fairly straight forward to fit with a socket up under the inner rear wheelarch, so a self-install could be much cheaper!!

However, WRT the towbar - If you want peace-of-mind and a definite knowledge that it's right for the vehicle/what you are doing with it, spec it with one on it. You might even be able to haggle one into the deal!!

Thanks Orange, The turning circle difference (circumference) between the 90 and the 110 is 0.5m according to the specs. I suspect you're right by some judicious tweeking things could be improved. Some forward planning driving is the best course of action, what with your home pulled behind you!

Thanks for the tow-bar tip, I'll endeavour to get it bundled in with the final deal, we are still in a recession you know!

[JST]

i had tow bar, mats, fuel rear windows thrown into my deal.

when it was just me my 90 HT was superb and had plenty of space for everything i did. having changed to a 110 to carry more people i now just fill the extra space with stuff i always managed to live without!

[--defender--]

i had tow bar, mats, fuel rear windows thrown into my deal.

when it was just me my 90 HT was superb and had plenty of space for everything i did. having changed to a 110 to carry more people i now just fill the extra space with stuff i always managed to live without!

That's one of the reasons for trading from a D3 to a Defender 110 hardtop, to have more storage space and all out of view too. My only remaining concern is it's ability to tow like the D3? I wish I could have one for a day and tow my rig around? On paper my D3 yields @ 440Nm, 187hp (after chipping), the TDCi 360Nm, 122hp. The 110's unladen weight is 200k lighter than my D3. I suspect the 110 is better at getting the rig moving, what with it's lower gearing, anti-stall feature and bottom end torque - well, that's what people say and how it reads? I expect it'll get the job done well? After doing the power to weight ratio comparisons, there's very little in it...

[Happyoldgit]

If you appear genuinely interested to them your local main dealer would probably loan you a 110 of some description for a day / weekend.