****inthemud Posted December 12, 2010 Share Posted December 12, 2010 This is just a technical query out of interest which maybe of use to others. Im hoping to re-locate the rad on my challenge 90 to the stays of the cage in the rear - this wont be something I attempt until the trucks all up and running nicely (I'll mess it up after that ) However, having not done this before I wondered how this would be plumbed in regards to the fitting of an electric water pump etc if it was necessary. I figured I would have to make some sort of blanking plate up for the standard pump housing and take the feed from where the titchy 90 bend is at the top if an electric pump was required? Hopefully someone has done this and has the right pointers/walkthroughs experiences? cheers all (Merry Xmas an' all that....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 SO NO IDEAS HERE THEN? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 If i were doinmg it, i would relocate the radiator and leave the existing pump in place, 'IF' it fails to pump the water that far, i would then fit an inline pump somewhere convenient.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 A mate and I have just put his 300 radiator in the back, using 38mm pipe and just the standard water pump. It had its first run out just before new year and performed absolutely fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 thinking about it, if you mount the radiator higher than the standard one, then you will get a certain amount of thermo syphon happening anyway, i have a 1929 car, and it doesn't even have a water pump.... and you can run tht all day without a fan and it won;t get too warm..... ok, so its not very powerful, but the water finds its own way around......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 out of interest where were you planning on routing the pipe work? Me and my dad have a 200tdi 80 trialler with the rad in the back (Same height as the engine) with no extra pump, that we have just finished building. We have only had it running properly once. My dad thinks it was properly up to temperature but i dont think it was so we cant be too sure if its going to overheat or not yet.... Our pipes go down in the middle, through the gbox tunnel and then up to the radiator. My main thinking is if anything is gonna cause a problem its the "dip" as it having to pump the hot water down first. If your going to do it keep the hot water pipe as high as possible and as hot water rises it should flow ok... Anyway the first time we are going to use it in anger is the 23rd of this month so I will report back after then. (If I dont then give me a post on here and ill let you know) Jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Interesting replies. I'm kinda hoping that the standard water pump will be fine. In terms of pipe routing, I have a standard gearbox tunnel and want to route the air intake through the cab so may follow it with the water pipes. Maybe this is not a safe option but I can't think of many other ways. ALSO, does the header tank then have to be mounted with the rad to remain higher. Obviously if I'm mounting it in the front of the tub it would be higher than the header tank in its standard position?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I think the header tank needs to at the same height in relation to the rad as it is now...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyManLuke Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 You do ideally want to keep the header tank higher than the radiator, to make bleeding the system easier. Additionally, if you don't, air will settle out in the top of the radiator, which isn't ideal, and you won't be able to undo the the expansion tank lid without loosing a lot of coolant. You could maybe do it without moving the header tank it'll just be a pain to work with and I could see it causing issues. Personally, I think it's easier to run pipes if the header tank and radiator are together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 ours is lower than the rad and engine. just makes it harder to bleed. it shouldnt present any problems while running though. cant take the cap off the radiator and header tank at the same time though jad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 I think I'll mount me header tank next to the rad then. Anyone got any pics and/or mounting ideas for header and rad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Interesting replies. I'm kinda hoping that the standard water pump will be fine. In terms of pipe routing, I have a standard gearbox tunnel and want to route the air intake through the cab so may follow it with the water pipes. Maybe this is not a safe option but I can't think of many other ways. If you are going to compete then i think the regs will need you to cover the water pipes if/where they are running through the cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puffernutter Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 For what it is worth, when I had a Hillan Imp, I wanted to do the reverse! (take the radiator from the back and mount it at the front to improve the cooling). Looking at how the "competition" cars had done it, they used (unlagged) steeel pipes that ran alongside the transmission tunnel (one each side) and everything else (water pump and header tank) stayed in exactly the same position. There was no problems with that arrangement at all. Cheers Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 we took our trialler out for a spin at the weekend (first time), with the radiator in the back and we did not have any problems. The water flowed well even though it goes through pipes through the gbox tunnel and only has the standard water pump. might put a fan on the radiator though there isnt much air flow around it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8 Freak Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Have you considered a temperature controlled electric water pump ? http://www.daviescraig.com.au/Electric_Water_Pumps-content.aspx With or without the manual one, but used on many cars nowadays and as you have the radiator higher than hte engine, already got a good head and potential for natural convection... Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted April 6, 2015 Author Share Posted April 6, 2015 Thought I might revive this one and see if anyone had anymore experiences to share with a rear mounted rad with 200tdi? I have thought about an electric pump used in conjunction with the stock mechanical one but I'm not sure if the two would conflict in some way and wouldn't know what size pump to choose. Also I wouldn't like to rely solely on an electric one as this truck is going to be all about the reliability (hence the 200tdi!). any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I ran a rear rad in my tomcat with a 200tdi standard water pump and an electric fan that rarely came on. There is nothing to worry about it works without problems mine did for 5 years the only things to watch are making sure you get all the air out and mounting the header tank above the rad. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I hear of pump conflict, but I don't see why? I would think overspeeding the leccy pump could be a risk, but I have never heard that mentioned? the safe bet is to leave the main pump with no drive. It can't be much added drag because the thermostat gets removed. It always has the option to spin freely. If it goes Pete tong you can put the right belt back on, but I suspect the leccy pump will be reliable, maybe more so than the leaky mech pumps? I fancy the leccy water pump because it gives me engine space by the winch and means the main pulley and alternator have their own belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 I hear of pump conflict, but I don't see why? I would think overspeeding the leccy pump could be a risk, but I have never heard that mentioned? the safe bet is to leave the main pump with no drive. It can't be much added drag because the thermostat gets removed. It always has the option to spin freely. If it goes Pete tong you can put the right belt back on, but I suspect the leccy pump will be reliable, maybe more so than the leaky mech pumps? I fancy the leccy water pump because it gives me engine space by the winch and means the main pulley and alternator have their own belt. Do you run without the thermo stat then? also what shorter belt do you use to by pass the water pump? I kind of like the idea of less "beltage" as it already has another belt running a secondary alternator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketomcat Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I ran mine completely standard just the rad in the back never had any issues at all. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Interesting replies. I'm kinda hoping that the standard water pump will be fine. In terms of pipe routing, I have a standard gearbox tunnel and want to route the air intake through the cab so may follow it with the water pipes.Those water pipes will need to be boxed in, if not for safety's at least sanities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 Those water pipes will need to be boxed in, if not for safety's at least sanities. I thought they might help heat the cab as long as they're metal pipe...keep the winch boy awake?! In all seriousness Im guessing that some scrutineers wouldn't like it so they probably will go down the underside as long as i get a belly plate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Drumstick Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Thing is, when they are not leaking they are fine. But should you get a high pressure water leak at high temps occur in the cabin, then you'd be covered in potentially boiling water. If you are unsure what is or isn't safe, maybe have a flick through the MSA bluebook, or for something more Land Rover focused the ALRC Greenbook. Obviously the specific competition regs won't apply if you aren't doing ALRC events. But the safety side is well thought out and written with close consultation to with the MSA and almost 60 years of competitive history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 I think Im pretty resigned to going underneath. makes sense if I had to break the car down or lift the bodywork. The snorkel system is easier to separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
****inthemud Posted August 10, 2015 Author Share Posted August 10, 2015 Coming back to this topic once again... A question for those who have rear mounted rads in their TDI's, how did you deal with the Oil Cooler? - did you add a second electric fan?? (also can you remember the oil fitting thread types?? cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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