Shant Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 This is probably a naïve (very naïve) question...... I have noticed for a time on the marketplace wanted section that it is against the rules to barter for a V5. I never really thought about this, or wondered why, however, something happened a few days ago which made me wonder why someone would need one. I have several landys, and a while ago, picked one up for spares, which I don't even count as a functioning vehicle. It's a 1986 110 (and had a conversion to 300tdi about 10 years ago, but is now a non-runner, ever since the big end went), and it's been sitting on the driveway for two years now. I bought it as a non-runner to get the virtually new turbo, rad and intercooler off it, and for seats and other parts - I paid £800 for the landy in 2008. I have taken engine parts out of it over the last couple of years, and bits and pieces wherever I could use them, however, a few months ago, this secondhand car dealer rang the doorbell and asked me if I wanted to sell it. I said no, and it was left at that. He came back a few times, and I always said no and when he said that he knew that it had been sitting there undriven for two years, I told him that I was slowly using it for parts. He came back a few days ago, and asked if I would sell him the chassis. The chassis is in excellent condition, so, I said no again - I will eventually use the chassis and bulkhead. And then, he asked if I would sell him the V5 since the car is undriven, and offered me £200. Again, I said no. I was away yesterday, and apparently, he called again and asked my wife to have a word with me. However, it got me wondering why anyone would want the V5. Strange thing to ask, I thought. And he is really being very insistent about the whole thing....I don't like it. I like to keep things friendly with people, however, if he calls again, I will ask him not to step on to my property again. I would appreciate any ideas about why anyone would be so insistent about the V5. All the best, Shant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 He has a stolen vehicle and wants to give it the identity of yours. Tell the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fozsug Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) So he can use it on a stolen vehile to "change" its identity . Inform the police Snap!!!! Edited January 7, 2011 by fozsug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Selling a V5 on it's own is IIRC illegal & can lead to another vehicle being ringed -- taking the identity of your 'dead' 110 for example, which could cause you or other V5 sellers lots of problems, just tell the guy to disappear & not to darken your door again, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shant Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thank you for that! My neighbour opposite was a retired police officer, and his two sons are a DCI and a DS, so, will tell them.....they are very sensible. I had asked my other neighbour about it, and he thought it was to make other land rover's exportable to the USA, and said XXXXX (this is hearsay....I know nothing about it) often buys old vehicles for the V5 and they do something, destroy the old landy, and then ship new ones off to the USA. So, I will assume it's not for something like that. Though, I didn't really understand what that was all about anyway. What I didn't like about this guy in particular, was that he actually said to me: "Well, you've not driven it in 2 years.......".....like I asked him to observe my driving habits! I have his phone number, so, if my neighbour's sons want to pursue it, I will pass that on too. Thank you for the info.....I really appreciate it! Just edited this to take out the dealer's name I had listed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Keep us informed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 very unlikely Foley's would buy vehicles just for the V5 they are a well known 7 have been in business for a long time exporting special order vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Ensure that the V5 is correctly registered in your name, if he felt like it, or anyone else for that matter, i believe you can apply to dvla for a v5, even if the vehicle isn't/wasn't registered in your name, if he knows the reg no, and the chassis number, i 'think' thats all that is needed, so, remove the plates, although if he's dodgy, he's most likely already noted down the number... It still amazes me the number of people even now selling chassis's on ebay which clearly state, no v5, ideal hybrid etc, things like this are totally illegal, once a chassis has a number, thats it, thats its number for life, unless the dvla are informed of a chassis swap for a NEW one, and a new number issued..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 It still amazes me the number of people even now selling chassis's on ebay which clearly state, no v5, ideal hybrid etc, things like this are totally illegal, No, identity and chassis are separate items. It is not illegal to sell a chassis without an ID and it is not illegal to build a hybrid on a chassis without a V5. I do agree with the Op that trying to buy just a V5 suggests nefarious deeds, but the true reason may be altogether less sinister. It doesn't necessarily mean he's going to steal someone's pride and joy and ring it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shant Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Ensure that the V5 is correctly registered in your name, if he felt like it, or anyone else for that matter, i believe you can apply to dvla for a v5, even if the vehicle isn't/wasn't registered in your name, if he knows the reg no, and the chassis number, i 'think' thats all that is needed, so, remove the plates, although if he's dodgy, he's most likely already noted down the number... It still amazes me the number of people even now selling chassis's on ebay which clearly state, no v5, ideal hybrid etc, things like this are totally illegal, once a chassis has a number, thats it, thats its number for life, unless the dvla are informed of a chassis swap for a NEW one, and a new number issued..... Thank you for the advice regarding the V5. I was just thinking recently that I hadn't remembered receiving the SORN renewal this year. I will check that out. Thank you! Thank you very much indeed! Ooh.....reading your comment about ebay makes me ask......would I be permitted to take the chassis off my redundant "110 for parts" to use on the 110 that is my daily drive, or would that be illegal too? I just checked out the chassis on my daily drive a week ago, and it has been patched up too much.....it won't get through the next MOT (and I am surprised it got through the MOT in November-the garage I use are very strict on everything). I thought that it might be the right time to use the galvanised chassis on the "110 for parts" (it is in perfect condition), however, if that is illegal, I'll just buy a new chassis. I hadn't even stopped to consider that doing that wouldn't be permitted.....silly me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 but the true reason may be altogether less sinister. It doesn't necessarily mean he's going to steal someone's pride and joy and ring it. But he originally wanted to buy the V5 on its own rather than the chassis. If he had a legit. new chassis to put onto a legitimate vehicle then he wouldn't have asked to buy the OP's chassis later on. If he had an old legit chassis but lost the V5 he could apply for a new V5 for his old chassis (vehicle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco-Ron Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Thank you for the advice regarding the V5. I was just thinking recently that I hadn't remembered receiving the SORN renewal this year. I will check that out. Thank you! Thank you very much indeed! Ooh.....reading your comment about ebay makes me ask......would I be permitted to take the chassis off my redundant "110 for parts" to use on the 110 that is my daily drive, or would that be illegal too? I just checked out the chassis on my daily drive a week ago, and it has been patched up too much.....it won't get through the next MOT (and I am surprised it got through the MOT in November-the garage I use are very strict on everything). I thought that it might be the right time to use the galvanised chassis on the "110 for parts" (it is in perfect condition), however, if that is illegal, I'll just buy a new chassis. I hadn't even stopped to consider that doing that wouldn't be permitted.....silly me! Bit of a grey area that one to be honest, technically, you shouldn;t use the 'parts' chassis on your truck, however, what you could get away with doing, possibly, is effectively rebuilding the 'parts truck, but using bits off the daily driver.... that way the chassis is still on the correct vehicle, it becomes a bit more complicated when you start thinking about engine numbers etc, however, that can be overcome, but the chassis is the biggest and most relevant component in my opinion.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Take down his vehicle registration number, make sure he sees you doing it. That usually riles them up pretty bad, I did the same to someone who wanted to buy an old van from us at work and they made their excuses and left when they saw me taking down their reg in the mirror. Re. your chassis, at the risk of opening a HUGE barrel of worms, when a chassis is replaced the new one assumes the identity of the old one (which shouldn't ever be re-used on the road) so technically you can't use the galv. chassis off your parts 110 for your 'proper' 110. There's also the issue of the DVLA/whoever liking to see a reciept of purchase of the new chassis, to prove where it came from. For example I have an invoice from Richards Chassis to show to the relevant authority should they ever want to poke around my 88". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dailysleaze Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 very unlikely Foley's would buy vehicles just for the V5 they are a well known 7 have been in business for a long time exporting special order vehicles. I think the practise is to buy an old vehicle, replace the chassis with a galvanised one and put all new bodywork on it - effectively getting a new vehicle on an old VIN. There's a photo diary of a business starting with a galvanised chassis, stripping the bits off a 2006 ROW 110 and then selling is as a 1984 110 for USA export. Sacrilege in my opinion! "This project is based on a 1984 donor and is having the full Berkshire Land Rover “treatment” to become one our much sought after conversions" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Take down his vehicle registration number, make sure he sees you doing it. The guy's a dealer, he could be driving a stock vehicle. If he's anything like the cowboy I bought my Volvo off it wouldn't registered as going through a dealer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Well he says he's a dealer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shant Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't like grey areas........I'll just buy a new chassis and have the old one taken for scrap. I'm a surgeon, so, if it is something even vaguely illegal and you get prosecuted, you face a GMC hearing for fitness to practice medicine.....so, I'll avoid using the old chassis! I have to thank all of you for the advice on that....it is very much appreciated, and something that I wouldn't have ever thought about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Hiatt Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 but the true reason may be altogether less sinister. It doesn't necessarily mean he's going to steal someone's pride and joy and ring it. But he originally wanted to buy the V5 on its own rather than the chassis. If he had a legit. new chassis to put onto a legitimate vehicle then he wouldn't have asked to buy the OP's chassis later on. If he had an old legit chassis but lost the V5 he could apply for a new V5 for his old chassis (vehicle). My point was more that someone may want a V5 to avoid an IVA, having for example been built from many legitimate parts rather than a donor. Something like an early kit form Wildcat which didn't use a donor chassis. A red tape offence and not as bad as ringing IMO. One legal use would be if you wanted to use a bitsa vehicle to do tout terrain events in France. They insist that you have a V5 and number plates (but no tax MOT or insurance) from a donor vehicle, even though your vehicle has no connection to it. The equivalent of the MSA then covers you for use on the road throughout the event. This is done as the IVA type regs in France make it virtually impossible to register an proto off roader. More likely, of course, that he want's to nick another. I prefer to defend 'presumed innocent' when all the facts are unknown to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shant Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I prefer to defend 'presumed innocent' when all the facts are unknown to us. True.....I have no idea what his intentions are....he could just be keen and eccentric! Indeed, I was only wondering what the thing with V5s involved....I didn't mean to blacken his reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 the V5 & associated number plates are actually in law the sole property of DVLA, vehicle owners are just registered long term [permanent] keepers of any vehicle, I wouldn't sell a V5 document to anybody regardless of their intentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragtag Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 For the sake of completeness, it is not illegal to use a second hand chassis for a rebuild. However the use of a second hand chassis requires the vehicle to undergo an IVA and be registered on a 'Q'plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I think the practise is to buy an old vehicle, replace the chassis with a galvanised one and put all new bodywork on it - effectively getting a new vehicle on an old VIN. There's a photo diary of a business starting with a galvanised chassis, stripping the bits off a 2006 ROW 110 and then selling is as a 1984 110 for USA export. Sacrilege in my opinion! "This project is based on a 1984 donor and is having the full Berkshire Land Rover “treatment” to become one our much sought after conversions" I have spoken to these guy's and I am not sure about them. They have been on Wheeler Dealers but the US guy I spoke to did not seem overly knowledgable? They have a stack of Galv chassis and some tatty 90's. But hay ho who knows. Marc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy996 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I have spoken to these guy's and I am not sure about them. They have been on Wheeler Dealers but the US guy I spoke to did not seem overly knowledgable? They have a stack of Galv chassis and some tatty 90's. Marc. Title laws in the USA are rather different than in the UK, where the attitude of the DVLA dominates everything. Each state has slightly different laws but generally if the vehicle is more than 25 years old, almost anything goes. There are a number of vehicle restorers who "Jack up the title, slide in a new car, bolt on the title", where FIA eligibility for historic racing and DVLA rules about identity would make this rather difficult. Given a pre-'85 title and evidence that a vehicle existed in the UK for 25 years, you could build up for the USA market a 110 or 130 from a 90, without too many issues. Have a look at East Coast Rovers for some lovely and expensive work from 90 to 110 or 130. Remember that defenders are a boutique item in the USA and worth much more than here. I am certainly not happy about V5s being bought and sold; it causes havoc with one identity being cloned across several cars. In the Morgan world, there are a few cars with the same identity on different continents, i.e. UK and USA or UK and somewhere else outside the EU. For more exotic cars like Ferrari or Porsche, clones and cars built up independently from different bits of the same wreck are not too uncommon and cause panic when discovered. Cars as investments make this an expensive business! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shant Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 There was an emergency at work which required all available doctors to go in, so, I have been in the Netherlands until this morning. On returning, my wife told me that the dealer had been back again about the 110, to ask her if she had been able to have a word with me. So, I called him this afternoon. I had quite a long chat with him....nothing hostile at all. He said he is one of the largest exporters of Landys to the USA, and that he would really like the title and chassis, however, if I don't want to sell him the chassis, the V5 will do. I told him no, as I may at some point rebuild the 110 (which is untrue....I have no intention of rebuilding it, however, I just wanted to end this annoying thing with him). He feels he is not doing anything wrong. He said the largest four exporters of landys to the USA buy old vehicles, destroy them (and in the process, harvest parts which they either use or sell on) and then use the donor chassis number for a new landy....they will put the new landy on a new galvanised chassis; and the new chassis will carry the identity of the old destroyed vehicle. He told me to speak to the other two big exporters in Essex and Herts who will confirm that they do this. He said by purchasing my V5, he will save some money, I will make some money, and that he avoids an unnecessary step in the process of preparing his vehicles for export. I told him that I really wasn't interested, and he agreed to leave me in peace. I didn't threaten him with the police as he was actually quite nice on the phone, and quite open and up front about everything. He wasn't trying to hide anything at all. I must say.....I don't agree with what they are doing, but each to his own! If it is illegal, the authorities will catch up with him. For me, I will destroy the chassis when I have finished with the parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 even if the rebuilt vehicles are going in to USA, what you've posted above sounds very suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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