Starting Frozen Engines

[Oakmaster]

I am a very Lucky guy, In addition to my 110 XS CSW Puma, I have a 1989 110 V8 pick-up, and a 1955 Series I.

When winter comes I gravitate to the 110 XS (because its less draughty and the heater works)

so the V8 and the S1, were not in everyday use.

When the Big Freeze came, and I wanted to lend them out to less enlightened, neither would start.

Now I appreciate this is more to do with the state of the batteries, than a frozen engine,

and I’m going to post a query about finding a battery conditioner / trickle charger separately,

but I wanted to see what experience people had with Block Heaters.

In the UK the only engine heater that you come across regularly is the Kenlowe,

but Its seems that in the US or Canada you can get heaters that warm the Block (from the outside)

warm the Oil (via an immersion heater that replaces the dipstick) Warm the coolant system in line (as per the Kenlowe)

Warm the fuel Filters, and the tank, warm the battery, and trace tapes to warm the fuel lines.

Here are a couple of sites to have a look at (there is a lot more on Google – as you would expect)

http://www.metrompg.com/posts/block-heater.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_heater

I do have a couple of the Warm the coolant system type heaters I bought in the USA a while back but haven’t fitted yet,

they were both about $40 (about £25 quid then) are rated for 220V (not 120V US domestic)

I would be very interested in hearing from anybody who has fitted one, and what the results were like.

Also any ideas about fitting, the use of timers / frost stats, cable routing, integration with a battery conditioner / trickle charger,

and a fool-proof method of not driving off with it all still plugged-in!

Thanks

[Tobias]

Here in Sweden it's more rule than exception to have in-block coolant heaters. In the more northern parts you even have power poles at many work parking lots to help plugging it in.

They are installed inside a core plug in the block, to get it into the coolant.

There is no forced movement of the coolant, so the power is limited to about 550W.

If used for about 1 hour it will heat a normal engine. In our tractor, an old IH 1056XL with a 6l iron engine it takes about 3-4 hours at -10C to help in starting.

Normally a petrol engine with a healthy battery is no problem even in very cold weather, but diesels can be more tricky.

I have just installed on in the wifeys P38. Knockin the core plug in one end, pick it out, insert heater, tighten, refill coolant, install electrickery bits and off you go.

I'd say 1-2h installation. here we also run a tee inside to run a small electric heating fan to have the windows frost free in the morning. that adds 1-2h to the installation, depending on how much carpet and stuff you have to penetrate to gain access.

This was a DEFA unit, can be found at:

http://www.defa.com/finn_dok_h.php3?merke=LAND+ROVER&modell=RANGE+ROVER&type=2〈=3&ndid=

The 346 should fit, as long as there is room around the core plugs on the left side. I used the rearmost one of the three.

Tobias

[pinhead]

Slightly off topic but a 1056 or 956 as we used to have should start fine down below minus 10 there is a heater plug in the inlet and this also adds fuel check this is working and they are also well known to need a fast spin an uprated starter motor is available from end of production models this has helped some people and because the battery cables are so long these need to be in tip top condition as does battery

but the thing these engines need is cranking speed oh and they sound bloody lovely

Andy

[tacr2man]

If your V8 and series 1 did not start ,then its down to poor maintenance, as they should still be starting whrn your 110XS would not .

If they are not getting use then they need to be fitted with battery conditioner/chargers to ensure that the battery is up to spec .

My V8 has a block heater (Zerostart) ex usa but that is just to get instant heater use from go it is 110v 1500w and has a 12v circ pump (ala kenlow Hotstart) .

To prevent connected drive off , depends on how idiot proof you need to make it , i.e key immobiliser, or relay interupt type system . or even as simple as running power cable thru steering wheel !.

p.s. a series engine will start from -20 on the starting handle HTSH

[Quagmire]

Not wanting to start a flame war here but have you actually tried to start a series on the handle at -20?

My series2 is easy (thats a relative term, compared to a key its not easy at all) to start on the handle in warmer weather, but when I have tried it on the handle in temperatures of zero or lower it is a right bugger!

My v8 90 however starts everytime with the flick of a key, whatever the weather

[Bowie69]

Ditto the above, very very difficult from cold, and that is a petrol LR. I have only managed it in temps above 15C really, but then being a lightweight, it may have a shorter starting handle, I dunno

[Tobias]

<OT>

Slightly off topic but a 1056 or 956 as we used to have should start fine down below minus 10 there is a heater plug in the inlet and this also adds fuel check this is working and they are also well known to need a fast spin an uprated starter motor is available from end of production models this has helped some people and because the battery cables are so long these need to be in tip top condition as does battery

but the thing these engines need is cranking speed oh and they sound bloody lovely

Andy

Thank you!

Will check cold start device and make new cables from battery to starter.

T

</OT>

[disco_al]

mmm 956xl..... lovely sounding motor....

[oakesy]

Must admit i have been toying with idea of attaching a heater pad to my radiator on my v8 3.5. Currently I use one on the oil sump for a couple of hours before moving. This I only used for the winter though. But on the idea for the radiator with a heater pad. Will this act like the bottom inline hose heater setup. Or need a better solution. I like the idea of Kenlowes version. except for the price. as the same with the webasto and eshpacher. Bit fascinated also why the products for heating over in usa an canada not hit over this market such as the inline hose heater and the power blanket engine warmer.

[tacr2man]

Regarding series at -20 , it was a series 1 2ltr at -18 actually, and belonged to my brother who had left it in front of Heavy recovery vehicle , middle of the night and it took two swings to start. 2.25 diesel tho is at the other end of the cold start spectrum .

Block heaters can be found on ebay usa at quite reasonable prices , but you generally need a site transformer to run them , but still cheaper than a kenlowe hotstart. If putting in heater circuit make sure you fit in correct hose and correct way round (if req) . The bottom hose or block type dont usually need a circulation pump. (use thermo syphon principal) , the other will not work efficiently as they heat up the local water , and then the thermostat cuts in . HTSH

[JimAttrill]

Best thing is the Swedish CTEK charger which will save you money in batteries if you have vehicles or boats that are not often used. The charger does not 'trickle charge' which will eventually overcharge any battery, it checks the voltage every 5 mins and switches on when it drops below 12.8v It also charges at 14.4 volts which will get your battery to 100% before it switches off and waits.

[Guest]

Here in Sweden it's more rule than exception to have in-block coolant heaters. In the more northern parts you even have power poles at many work parking lots to help plugging it in.

This was a DEFA unit, can be found at:

http://www.defa.com/...=2〈=3&ndid=

The 346 should fit, as long as there is room around the core plugs on the left side. I used the rearmost one of the three.

Tobias

Tobias,

The DEFA warmup looks exactaly what I am looking for but struggling to find somewhere to buy it online, 460367 for a TD5 Defender but am struggling to find on on line to buy did you get yours online? if so from where?

Cheers, Jason.