old leafer Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 hi does any one no if the gap is open this year and if it is whats the dates cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 hi does any one no if the gap is open this year and if it is whats the dates cheers this is the TRO posted at the eastern end (attached) We walked the 'bombed bridge' a few weeks ago and it is in a very bad way. There was also a lot of compacted snow/ice on main step area just through the gap, if this is still present then I would imagine its going to be tricky. I certainly wouldnt attempt it. Its likley to have thawed out now but as its on a NE face it remains the longest. not sure what the current state is politically. when we drove it we had Brecon park wardens tell us it was closed and we shouldn't be there (it was a RUPP). I have read its under highways agency control and all sorts of other things. despite all this, people still drive it and Brecon county council have put huge boulders on other lanes in their area that ARE closed. hope this helps G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I was under the impression that it was closed for good, from research last year, but that is by no means certain information. I'd call the relevant CC ROW department and ask them, there are some members on here quite involved in the Wales laning scene (with regard to repairs etc.) who may know too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old leafer Posted February 10, 2011 Author Share Posted February 10, 2011 thanx for the advice i will look in to it further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Just do not ask Powys county council as they will tell you it is closed and has been for years. Drive it at your own risk. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smego Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Isn't it in Monmouthshire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Isn't it in Monmouthshire? Er no. As Paul says its a massive grey area. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Just do not ask Powys county council as they will tell you it is closed and has been for years. Drive it at your own risk. Paul Sounds pretty clear cut, they say it's closed so it is. What evidence is there to the contrary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Sounds pretty clear cut, they say it's closed so it is. What evidence is there to the contrary? Highways agency I believe. Paul could probably expand on this. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Well lots of people still use it and will still do so. But if you get stoped then you rist having you 4x4 taken off of you. If you can prove it is legal to use then your ok. I do not know of anyone that than can yet!! Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 So basically, it's listed by the authority 'closed' and we (as of current) have no evidence to prove otherwise. But seen as (I assume) the lane is not blocked off with gates etc., people still drive it? Just seems odd that for every other closed green lane with a permanent TRO the advise would generally be to not drive it under any circumstances, yet with this one people are saying 'drive at your own risk'. Is there a listed and recorded permanent TRO on the lane (I know there's been a seasonal one for a while)? Or is it just the council saying "it's closed", which has no legal power? Makes you wonder, is it up to you to prove you have the right of way, or up to the council to prove you don't. Unless there are other ways of prohibiting access to a PROW (quite possible I'm sure), then if there is no official TRO in force, how do they legally stop you driving it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 It will only get proved if it ever gets to court. The problem is noone is getting that far. It is on the list of streets as a UCR. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Humphreys Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Just to add, there is a TRO in force, as the signs show. Most people would take the signs to say when it is CLOSED. So when it is not closed most people would take it as open? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hmm, well if it's a UCR I don't know if an 'official' right of way exists in law, like it does with a footpath/bridleway/byway etc. If it does, and there is no legislation (TRO) in force to prevent access, then there's no reason not to drive it. It would be the TRO or whatever that would give them the ability to prosecute, after all. If a UCR doesn't create a legal right of way, then it's a different kettle of fish. Where would the right of way come from in that instance? Is it shown on the definitive map? As an aside, what condition is the road in? Passable by 'normal' 4x4s, or only for the more serious off-roaders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 All unclassified roads (tarmac or otherwise) are recorded on a document known as the List of Streets.This is the official record of all highways that are maintained at public expense and every highway authority should have one It is important to realise that the inclusion of a route on the List of Streets is not conclusive evidence that vehicular rights exist! This is because all pubic rights of way are technically highways so in theory the List of Streets could include footpaths and bridleways. In practice though this is rarely the case but it has led some authorities to question the exact status of their unclassified roads. If a route appears on both the List of Streets and the Definitive Map it is called a Dual Status route. Where this occurs there is a presumption that any motoring rights which may have existed in the past would have been extinguished by NERC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Serenity Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 On the face of it, it appears that the restriction is only for certain times of the year. It looks as if it is open between the 2nd September and 14th October, unless of course, you are visiting someone who lives down there and you therefore require access. Would a local GLASS representative have more info on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 To continue this, I read tonight that the seasonal TRO signs (with the dates on) as per above posts have now been removed, and just the vehicle prohibition one remains: Source: http://www.xrv.org.uk/forums/africa-twin/74107-gap-road-4.html Can anyone shed any further light on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Serenity Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 some people on that forum you've linked seem to think its a great idea to go up and down the lane despite the seasonal restriction being replaced by a full tro. no wonder people hate greenlaners Edit: changed to read 'some people' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJB Serenity Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 found this page while doing some research, though it might make you smile Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludylandy Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 As an aside, what condition is the road in? Passable by 'normal' 4x4s, or only for the more serious off-roaders? I drove it last March in a standard SWB 2a without too much trouble - not that it seems to matter anymore. A friend of a friend lives locally and is a mad keen mountain biker. He cycled it recently only to discover the steps have been packed with loose gravel and stone forming an even incline. Seems a waste of time and money to me but I'm sure the Park Authority know what's best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevorevans Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Was a sad day when me and a friend went up there on the first day it should have been open this year to find the signs showing the dates that the TRO was in force had been removed, I was always told that as long as the signs were there, regardless of what any parks authority or council told you, you could drive it as they are legal road signs telling you that it can be driven within the dates shown, now you dont ring the council every time you come across a sign for a one way street to check it really is one way do you?, the same type of signage is also posted on the Sarn Helen route. As regards to the Gap when I first drove the lane (only last year) I'd heard about all the so called damage and was expecting it to be in really bad condition but I have seen far worse, a friend managed the blown bridge section in a standard frontera and another in a fourtrack they just had AT tyres on. Ok the steps could have done with a bit of attention but were by no means impassible, last thing I heard from the club I'm in was that the council had told the guy that organises the trips that it had a one way TRO on the lane so the steps could only be driven downwards in order to lessen any damage, what would have been wrong with keeping it that way?. Just another good lane with stunning views lost to some busybodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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