max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 As some of you will remember I have a defender 90 that I built onto a 1989 range rover 3.5 chassis with auto transmission . This was completed in 2009. I have been offered a discovery 300tdi with a good engine and gearbox for reasonable money. The body is shot and chassis also looks bad. I know it has been main dealer serviced most of it's life and looked after mechanically. I have been having trouble justifying the running costs of my v8 recently and find myself using my other car in place of the landy which defeats the object of having it in the first place. So I have to make a decision whether to swap the v8 for the 300tdi or persevere with the running costs. This obviously will depend on the extra cost of fitting the engine. I've looked in the tech archive and got some good info but with my landy being "special" I'm not too sure what I will need to purchase to get it to fit properly. I do know that I will replace exhaust, clutch and cam belt whilst it's all in bits but not sure about anything else. Will need a different turbo due to the 300 one not fitting the chassis. Also my engine and gearbox mounts are still standard for the v8 and auto box I presume that they will need moving also. I guess what I'm asking is will a 300tdi engine fit into a rangerover v8 chassis that has had 190mm removed from between the trailing arm mounts and which has now got a defender 90 body fitted. I'm sorry if this sounds like the ramblings of a madman. Your thoughts are welcomed. Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reb78 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Why not spend the money on an lpg kit if you are happy with all but the economy of the current setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My thoughts are gas the V8, far simpler, cheaper, easier, and capital outlay is minimised if you use second hand kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thought about gas previously. How difficult is it to install. I live in the sticks and nearest LPG station in 30 miles so I've always talked myself out of it. I've also been told that LPG runs hotter than petrol and eventually damages the engine, I know lots of people have it so it can't be that bad. I'm also wanting to prep my landy for some overlanding in the next few years and thought that diesel would be better. I love my v8 and built the truck thinking I would keep it forever, hence the Q plate but circumstances change. My god I've even thought about selling it completely but wife and kids sobered me up. I've also recently been offered a 1960ish series 109 ex military truck that once featured in LRO for not much money. I was toying with that idea but again money and storage are major issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty_wingnut Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Stick with what you know. Best advice I've recieved in recent weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Installation is simple once you understand the system. Bits of 8mm copper pipe work, some rubber hoses and a feed the lot with some power and off you go. When fitting I tend to allow a couple of days, because fitting the tank securely is really important, but other than that it is nuts and bolts. If you wanted to really invest in it then get yourself a new multipoint system -DIY from Tinley Tech, very, very good company to deal with. Get the biggest tank you can if you do go this route. As far as stations go, have a look here: http://www.lpgmap.co.uk/map.php?lat=54.0722230&lon=-2.2815900&error=false&search=4 http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/map/index.php?zone=north%20yorkshire http://www.go-autogas.com/find_refueller.html You may find a nearer one from these links.... As for running hotter, the RV8, especially the 3.5 seems to go on for ever on LPG, only eventually getting pitted exhaust valves, but this is 100,000 miles off at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thanks for the info. Nearest is guisburn about 20 miles. Could incorporate fill up with weekly asda trip. I've been figuring out a few sums. 70 ish pence per ltr for LPG. Roughly half the cost of petrol. So my weekly commute of 120 miles to work that costs 60 quid would be cut to around 30 straight away. It's doing ten to gallon at moment despite changing all the sensors. If I could get a bit more by fitting megasquirt it might be worth doing. Can anyone tell me a rough estimate for the kit for a 3.5 efi engine. Can it run LPG aswel as petrol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Do you get the same MPG when running on LPG? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thats petrol. No LPG fitted yet. Its consistemtly between 10 and 13 to gallon. Thats my problem....tooo expensive!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Do you get the same MPG when running on LPG? no, its roughly 10% less than petrol. 10-13? that seams very low? do you like happy noise? according to parkers, the 3.9 does/averages 19mpg! have you tried using one of these? could help you to make a difference: http://www.drivelpg...._calculator.php and dont forget, ignore the cost of the investment in the present, think of the savings in the future!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 LPG uses more litres per mile than petrol so its not the 50% saving that it first appears , when you say overlanding if its outside europe , you might as well remove the lpg tank . You will loose significant space in a 90 with a useful size of lpg tank . A 300tdi would make a more long term answer in view of what you are doing , and intend to do with your vehicle. The gearbox mount would most likely stay as it is , so it would just mean fitting new engine mounts . Why would turbo not fit in chassis ? I have a 90 that has been fitted with disco 300tdi without any probs. inc turbo and exh front pipe with cat. JMHO Max (as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 (edited) yes, the mpg doesn't change, the saving comes from the fuel difference. 10-13? that seams very low? do you like happy noise? What I was wondering was did a car go as far for one litre of lpg as it does on petrol, after a bit of a google it seems that you 'lose' about 20% when on LPG so the 10-13 Mpg will become 8-10 MPG See http://www.drivelpg...._calculator.php EDIT: spent too long typing again and tacr2man already confirmed. Edited October 7, 2011 by CwazyWabbit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 10 mpg? What mods are there or is it standard? Known condition of the cam? If going LPG, I don't think there's really a case for Megasquirting, unless you love spending money. Tinley is £725+VAT for a V8 kit, that's fully sequential. http://www.tinleytec.../lpgprices.html £499+VAT for a closed loop draw through (perfectly fine on your engine) So say it cost you £600ish, that's a little over 20 weeks and the conversion is paid for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landy-Novice Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 What I was wondering was did a car go as far for one litre of lpg as it does on petrol, after a bit of a google it seems that you 'lose' about 20% when on LPG so the 10-13 Mpg will become 8-10 MPG See http://www.drivelpg...._calculator.php EDIT: spent too long typing again and tacr2man already confirmed. my 10% result was from googling! so lets be both right, lets say 15% there must be something wrong with his motor!!! 10-13mpg, to me its shout "SCRAP ME" i wouldn't go for a new one simply because of the costs! have you thought about buying c**p disco with lpg, taking it off and sell it on? or try land rover breakers, they must have some kicking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 .... there must be something wrong with his motor!!! 10-13mpg, to me its shout "SCRAP ME" .... 10-13MPG for a 3.5V8 with carbs doesn't sound too bad, depends on driving style and the type of journeys..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 Flipping heck. Loads of info to think about. Yes I like the like the noise but I see MPG dip even lower if I'm silly so I keep it sensible. I've never checked the cam because it runs ok so thought why fix something that works ok. It does run slightly rich and plugs keep requiring a clean or replacement periodically. I would like to travel to Morocco at some point in the future and this is the reason for thinking diesel. I'm only paying three hundred quid for two discoveries one with a poorly engine but ancillaries are good so think I might be sensible to go that way. Also my truck might be more saleable in the future. So apart from the initial cost of the engine what is the likely requirements to fit it. I've seen new engine mounts and an exhaust kit to convert it into defender friendly fit but these alone came to three hundred quid. Do I need them or will the exhaust clear the chassis from the discovery manifold. I don't want to take the engine out of the discovery, trailer it home and discover it's going to cost alot more to get it to fit. Thanks for all your replies so far. Very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 20% is far more of a drop than I saw on my V8 RRC, it was more like 10%, and also 10% on my multipoint Hyundai conversion (Yes I did say that on a LR forum! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wermy Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My V8 auto used to do 13 - 15 on petrol. When it was converted to LPG with a closed loop system it averaged 10.7 which at LPG prices was equivalent to the high twenties. It took me a day to hook it all up before we moved up here to Yorkshire. Tripped over the tank and all the bits the other day, must move it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 My V8 auto used to do 13 - 15 on petrol. When it was converted to LPG with a closed loop system it averaged 10.7 which at LPG prices was equivalent to the high twenties. It took me a day to hook it all up before we moved up here to Yorkshire. Tripped over the tank and all the bits the other day, must move it on. PM sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 found this on Steve Parkers site. Will i really need to spend this much on parts for the conversion? http://www.steveparkers.co.uk/conversion_300TDI_to_90-110-LT77.php?PHPSESSID=81543d91f053276c0191b3ba566bbdc4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 No, but you can 'make do' or do a lot of properly yourself, his kit just makes it a huge amount easier. But an engine conversion will always cost a heap more than you think, and take 4 times longer. For exmaple my P38 V8 into RRC V8, thought it would be REALLY simple, bolt in... took ages to get it 'just right', and then I found the oil filter would get walloped off road by the diff. At least with a gas kit it can all be removed very easily if you don't like it, and the time outlay is nothing in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LandyLee Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Please remember you`ll have to inform insurance of lpg, they will ask for certificate off installer to ensure it is done right. You can ask local installer to check your work if needs be. Also inform dvla of dual fuel. Lastly tell the mot tester, its a much kinder test for lpg compared to petrol unless car is pre cat when test is same. I`ve run an lpg jeep around the country dleivering and collecting vehicles. I found I ended up on petrol quite often as many stations were simply empty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Please remember you`ll have to inform insurance of lpg, they will ask for certificate off installer to ensure it is done right. Not true, this varies from insurer to insurer, and I have found with the specialist insurers that LR owners tend to use they really couldn't give a fig about it, and the premium is the same. But yes, you are legally required to inform them and the DVLA On my Hyundai it put the insurance up by £20, or one tank of saving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerboy_y2k Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 found this on Steve Parkers site. Will i really need to spend this much on parts for the conversion? http://www.stevepark...191b3ba566bbdc4 no, i've done a td to 300tdi conversion this summer. all we bought was the steve parker engine mounts (you can cut them off the donor disco, but was easier for us to have the ready made bracket) and the downpipe - this is a very simple bend so could be made up locally or by yourself if you can weld. everything else was modified from the td or from the disco - disco power steering pipes do just fit, but don't look as neat as standard, intercooler pipes can be made up with a combination of rubber and metal etc. Some people like the steve parker kit as it's everything you need and gives a good looking install, others prefer to save money and modify what they have available to make it work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max-ie Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks chaps for all the info. I have thought long and hard about this and have decided to do down the diesel route. I will have sufficient spare bits off the discoveries to run my car for many years to come. I will start the strip down of the discos next week and dry store the bits until February when I will have bought new clutch and cam belts etc. I love my V8 but petrol isnt ever going to get any cheaper is it. I will update this thread with pics as I go on. No doubt you can all keep an eye on me as I do the work and advise when I'm doing the wrong thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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