longlandy Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Isnt the real arguement not between pipe and tube, I believe the main problem is that 12swg cds is too thin, you wouldnt make a chassis that thin would you?jumping to 10swg gives you 3.24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 But then you would think as an "expert" he'd know that cages aren't required for MSA challenge events so his "field day" would make him look like a complete donkey wouldn't it ? That explains ALOT! Thats why I put I guess he would have a field day.. I'm not upto date on challenge regs. I have stayted away from them tbh. purley because depending on where your competing depends on regs. Explains why there are so many abortions out there claiming to be "challenge trucks". I really have the view that IF your going to build a roll cage opposed to a pretend bit of tubing that looks good. It should be a real one and for the extra effort involved it might aswell comply with as many regulations as possible hence ALRC. I now understand the cowboy features of some of the challenge trucks I and many others have laughed at in the past. No doubt there are many many good ones but some are really really poor TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Isnt the real arguement not between pipe and tube, I believe the main problem is that 12swg cds is too thin, you wouldnt make a chassis that thin would you?jumping to 10swg gives you 3.24 I am going to reply to this thread by stating facts: A landrover chassis is made out of 14 swg (2mm thick). Another fact: you can get cds in 10 swg as well. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Build a cage to MSA and FIA NOT ALRC FFS ALRC have some wierd ideas, much of their rules and regs are stuck in the 70s / 80s, and a ARLC Cage will fail MSA Scrutineering. Their CCV / Comp Safari Trucks are a good 15- 20 yrs behind everything else out there, and they are not a serious Competitive cutting edge organization so don't use them as any sort of Yardstick of exellence FFS. MSA is prob No 1 over here, FIA more 'international', an MSA cage may not be enough for FIA. An MSA or FIA cage will walk through any ARLC anoraky rivet counter scrutineer but may still fail it as the paint may not be a genuine LR Colour I shoved up the MSA / alrc Cage regs a while ago : http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=14161 Have a lookie at the tools and Fac Tech Index, sectioon all on cages Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenstream Posted December 18, 2011 Author Share Posted December 18, 2011 Thank your very much everybody. This interesting to read and food for thought. The 4X4-scene in Denmark , well the more challengeing part of it, is organized together with the Rally-guys. The Rally-guys stick to what looks like MSA. From what I can see then the fitment to the chassis is allmost the same wether MSA of ARLC But its great reading you opinions and experiences. Cheers Morten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlandy Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 I am going to reply to this thread by stating facts: A landrover chassis is made out of 14 swg (2mm thick). Another fact: you can get cds in 10 swg as well. Daan Thats why I mentioned 10 swg , in fact you can get almost any gauge. Also would you make a chassis out of SINGLE skin 14swg I hope not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Here's a naughty one though. The weld ripped, which I havn't seen before. Terry winchman said there was too much heat in the weld. Personally I think CDS is less forgiving for home builds? You may think otherwise, which is totally fair Makes you think about how it might turn out though. The impact was hard enough to wrincle the chassis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 To me that looks like it has ripped the tube, not broken the weld. Its the thinner wall that makes it less forgiving IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 CDS needs welding diffterently to blue band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkrentfitter Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Build a cage to MSA and FIA NOT ALRC FFS ALRC have some wierd ideas, much of their rules and regs are stuck in the 70s / 80s, and a ARLC Cage will fail MSA Scrutineering. Their CCV / Comp Safari Trucks are a good 15- 20 yrs behind everything else out there, and they are not a serious Competitive cutting edge organization so don't use them as any sort of Yardstick of exellence FFS. MSA is prob No 1 over here, FIA more 'international', an MSA cage may not be enough for FIA. An MSA or FIA cage will walk through any ARLC anoraky rivet counter scrutineer but may still fail it as the paint may not be a genuine LR Colour I shoved up the MSA / alrc Cage regs a while ago : http://forums.lr4x4....showtopic=14161 Have a lookie at the tools and Fac Tech Index, sectioon all on cages Nige the rac msa are so far behind fia regs in rally cars that they are introducing draconian measures from january 1 2012,many to do with roll cages,many to do with modifying fwd to rwd body shells,has rendered many perfectly good cars unusable,google andy burton 306,the car can no longer be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 Love the caged motor pipe and panel and old strong 4 speed box if the gearstick is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longlandy Posted December 19, 2011 Share Posted December 19, 2011 CDS needs welding diffterently to blue band Why, its mild steel just cold drawn. I believe its the mechanical joint size that needs spreader plates like you would do joining the cage to the chassis. Picture is of my old turd with a gusset plate to spread the load Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtydiesel Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 To me that looks like it has ripped the tube, not broken the weld. It's just ripped the tube at the edge of the heat-affected zone, CDS needs welding diffterently to blue band No it doesn't Nige. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 It's just ripped the tube at the edge of the heat-affected zone, The H.A.Z. will be much larger than the weld, unless its been done with an Electron Beam Welder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted December 20, 2011 Share Posted December 20, 2011 This shows the problem with any of the lower grade steels, like cds and blueband : it is al very well mentioning strength, but the moment you touch it with a welder, this all goes to pop quite alarmingly, like you see on the picture. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jai_landrover Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 £ for £ ease of build and overall toughness Its Blueband for me all the way. People will disagree but I'd be perfectly happy comp safari racing, time trialing or CCV'ng with Blueband. Its been tried and tested for many years been trashed, trashed and tested by the masses of comp guys since forever so I like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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