Soren Frimodt Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Some of my mates are running this technological marvel of a diseasel engine, but there is a thing that keeps bothering, both me and those who uses it for offroading. And that is the never ending stalling problem, what causes it? It seems like the more power you get from the thing, by either reprogramming the ECU or installing a dedicated chip, the problem gets worse. The stalling most often occurs when you have been hard on the gas, say up a steep climb, and then lets completely go of the throttle, the engine will then shot off all fuel delivery until it reaches idle, and then turn it on again just enough to idle, but it's like it doesn't do this quickly enough and the engine just stalls. Further if you have to do a slow clutch engagement, as when winching for instance, all of a sudden it just stalls, no warning like on old mechanical diesels.. Now being a Motorcycle mechanic I have encountered similar problems with EFI engines, most often due to weak signal from either cranksensor or cam sensor. But could this simply be the problem here as well? I am sure there is somebody out there who have had the same thoughts on this, rather annoying problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Sounds like the remapped ones have a very poor remap to me. Many maps only bother with top end power and not with low down or smoothness. I have a good map and VNT and genuinely don't have this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Try pulling the plug off the bottom of the clutch line pressure sensor - this worked for me on a Discovery 2. (On the Disco. it is on the right hand side, looking from the front of the car, near the top of the wing) Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes that is a fair argument, but there is more to it than that, think about when either you, or somebody you know, first drove a TD5 I bet you it stalled at some point. There is something about the engine management at the low revs that isn't working as you could've wanted. And it is quite annoying when offroading, I'm sure somebody have been looking into this? Or I could be terribly wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted March 18, 2012 Author Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hi wingnut, think we just posted at the same time, what is this sensor you're referring to? what exactly does it do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calle-fas Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I've encountered this problem too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I am not an expert in this field, but any ecu driven diesels I have driven are like this. the pug XUD was perfect for low down torque, the later version, the HDI version is garbage compared, and every modern diesel seems to have lost the advantage of torque at low RPM. I dont know if emissions are the cause of this. What would be a good idea is to megasquirt a diesel. If you can make it work, you have freedom of mapping, so you wont have to rely on what a tuner is telling you. That might give you the tools to solve the problem. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Hi wingnut, think we just posted at the same time, what is this sensor you're referring to? what exactly does it do? It is in the line between the clutch master and slave cylinders - not exactly sure what it does (I assume it sends a signal to the ECU to tell it to allow fuel into the engine when the clutch is engaged) - but I was finding that the car was stalling when lifting off the throttle from highish revs and changing direction, ie from forward to reverse. I put it down to a delay in the signal from the throttle position sensor to the ecu. The car would stall in high box, low box, on road or off, before it was chipped and after. I read somewhere about pulling the plug off the sensor and it has worked for me. It does not cause any codes to be shown. I have had a look on RAVE and it does not show any sensor in the clutch line - but went out to check on the car and there it is! Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Maybe this is why my 90" doesn't behave like this? As its a conversion and I used the 300 clutch assembly that wire is just left dangling. That said, I don't see this problem on our 2001 110" but the 2004 130" is terrible for stalling and that has a j fearn chip. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 The Td5 engines are always rubbish at low revs, always have been and always will be. You can make an electronically managed engine superb at low revs - look at the Puma which is almost unstallable unless you are really incompetent - but they just didn't get it right with the Td5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 some good stuff, we're gonna try disconnecting that sensor, but I too believe there is something fundamentally wrong with the design Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I have stalled mine both before and after the re-map, though the re-map has helped a lot. I think it's more down to my incopmpetence than the engine design though! It just requires a slightly different technique to older diesels - but the advantage of the power & torque available the rest of the time totally outweighs this. I too will have a look for the sensor - and disconnect it! It's used as part of the cruise control so the cruise is disabled when you press the clutch so that it does not rev the engine to bits. If it helps the stalling, I'll make it switchable and connected to the cruise control. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I have stalled mine both before and after the re-map, though the re-map has helped a lot. I think it's more down to my incopmpetence than the engine design though! It just requires a slightly different technique to older diesels - but the advantage of the power & torque available the rest of the time totally outweighs this. I too will have a look for the sensor - and disconnect it! It's used as part of the cruise control so the cruise is disabled when you press the clutch so that it does not rev the engine to bits. If it helps the stalling, I'll make it switchable and connected to the cruise control. Si I knew somebody would know what it was for - and an apology from me, it is on the 'other' right of the engine bay ie the left hand side, sorry for the error. Thinking about what you wrote Simon the cruise control still works as it should, press the brake or the clutch pedel and it disengages straight away. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thinking about what you wrote Simon the cruise control still works as it should, press the brake or the clutch pedel and it disengages straight away Not sure how though? How do you detect that the clutch has been pressed without the sensor? It could do it by the sudden increase in revs? Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 "Not sure how though? How do you detect that the clutch has been pressed without the sensor? It could do it by the sudden increase in revs?" To be perfectly honest I don't know - when I was growing up everything was controlled mechanically so I am out of my league when it comes to electronics, it all still works though. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off Road Toad Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Surely something as safety critical as cruise control would rely on more the one sensor in case of failure? I'm guessing engine revs as the obvious one. What does the anti stall system use to work when fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy andy. Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Could you not remove the switch from the ecu wiring, but wire direct to the cruise control power supply, or off switch. So that it is the same switch, working the same way, but only now controlling the cruise control? Am reading this with interest as I don't suffer from this stalling in my Td5, or I don't think I do, is it just the early ones? Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BogMonster Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The function of the clutch sensor is that it disables the "anti shunt control" (the can-be-annoying delay on the throttle) so you don't get the annoying rev when you dip the clutch for a gearchange. A sign of it not working is a surge in revs at each gearchange. Disabling it (by unplugging it) effectively disables ASC, so the engine is either more responsive or more jerky, depending on your point of view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I have noticed the 300tdi with auto in my 90 goes from shut off to idle on overrun as soon a s brake pedal pressed (EDIS unit fitted) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 The function of the clutch sensor is that it disables the "anti shunt control" (the can-be-annoying delay on the throttle) so you don't get the annoying rev when you dip the clutch for a gearchange. A sign of it not working is a surge in revs at each gearchange. Disabling it (by unplugging it) effectively disables ASC, so the engine is either more responsive or more jerky, depending on your point of view! Thats the one - you do get a slight delay in the revs dropping when you change gear, especially if the engine is working hard, but nothing to worry about. My car is a 1999/2000 model year, if that makes any difference. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well one of my mates just tried disconnecting that sensor, and he said it made a world of difference! Not sure about the stalling really though, until he gets it offroad again, but pulling away it is much more responsive, and a real joy to drive. So all in all a nice little trick there from mister Wingnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Well one of my mates just tried disconnecting that sensor, and he said it made a world of difference! Not sure about the stalling really though, until he gets it offroad again, but pulling away it is much more responsive, and a real joy to drive. So all in all a nice little trick there from mister Wingnut Only passing on other peoples knowledge. Peter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yella 90 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 shoot me down but the best solution i came up with was auto. transformed my car and i'd never go back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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