russ079 Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 Hiya, Im building up a 90 V8, Ive had a 200tdi for a few years so had a few spares and I bought a 1996 disco v8 as a donnor. Bascaily now Ive got a rolling chassis with the 3.9 serp v8 and lt85 fitted. Ive done a search in the ms section for lpg but nothing comes up. Just like to pick the brains of anyone running lpg. Firstly i cant decide weres best the put the lpg tank/tanks. The best soulution Ive come up with so far is 1x 360 dia by 578 inbetween the chassis rails upto the cross member at teh back were a td5 tanks is, and another tank the same size tucked up the passenger side opposite standard side tank, It shouldnt hang below the chassis so with a proective plate should be fine. That will give me 80litres which is plenty. Just need to find somewere for the battery to go. I was trying to avoid putting anything in the rear tub as i wanted to use the load space. Second thing, the disco had single point lpg injection system, I was planning on getting 2x banks of 4 gas injectors and running multi point injecion for the lpg. My question is can the can i use the ms to fully control my petrol and lpg or do i need to piggback it with a lpg controller ecu, If so what lpg ecus and best suited with the megasquirt? Currently my 90 has no wiring at all, I was hoping a could get a ms system and proberley witha lot of head scratching wire it up the run on petrol, Then flick a switch for gas and it swap maps, closes petrol injectors and opens gas soleniod. Or am i asking too much . Thanks Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I ran a single point LPG system alongside MegaSquirt for several years. For simplicity I'd keep the LPG system as a standalone system and use MS in dual map mode. If you hook the map switch input up to the LPG solenoid circuit whenever the LPG system is activated/deactivated the MS automatically changes maps. You can configure the MS to switch both fuel and ignition with a different ignition curve for each fuel and simply zero the fuel map for LPG. The map switching can be phased in over a couple of seconds, giving a really smooth change from one fuel to the other. This has the extra advantage that you don't need injector isolators that normally are used for LPG systems to stop the petrol injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath robinson Posted May 10, 2013 Share Posted May 10, 2013 I'd like to throw the BLOS carb into the mix of your ideas here. The more I research these things, the more this seems perfect. With a changable ignition map, and a BLOS carb (A self-regulating carb, works of manifold vacuum like an SU, but without any throttle or butterfly. Very effective, and much less restrictive than a mixer ring. I think Zoltan uses and likes these.) you'd have the most efficient/simplest/cheapest LPG rig currently available. I'm ordering one of these imminently for my own devious machinations. Linky... Not me or nuffin, just a suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ079 Posted May 10, 2013 Author Share Posted May 10, 2013 Thanks for the replies, Ill have do do more reading up on the blos carbs they sound very good. Sounds like a good setup to run ms with the single point injection lpg with a blos carb. Heath could you keep me updated on how your blos setup goes. Thanks Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 BLOS are great, can't say enough good about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 I have BLOS carbs on two vehicles now, my 110 with a 3.5 EFi V8 and on my Gaz-66 truck which is a Russian ZMZ 4.2 V8. The 110 is on Megasquirt with switch maps and the Gaz on the original Russian distributor. On the 110 I can barely discern any difference in performance between petrol and LPG. There is a slight loss of oomph on the Gaz as it is running the same ignition settings but it is a minuscule difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazza Posted May 11, 2013 Share Posted May 11, 2013 A HUGE thank you to all you for the recommendations about the BLOS - I think I will buy one! Cheers Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggylad Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 +1 for BLOS. I've have mine running on my 110 (3.5 V8 on carbs) for a couple of years now. It really does do what it says on the tin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffR Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Very curious as to how one plumbs in a BLOS..... as my LPG system (3.5 on SU's ) is not very well at the mo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath robinson Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I think there's a thread on here detailing it, but in essance you whack it in between the air box and the Y pipe. Bung the LPG feed into it and voila! Obviously there's a small amount of tuning to be done, but nothing to taxing by the sound of it, provided you can work out which end of a screwdriver is the useful one (and maybe can poke about with a colourtune etc...) That said, I now can't find the thread I meant, but I'll keep looking, as the pics were quite handy. To be honest, I've read such glowing reviews of starting/idling on the BLOS carb, I'm tempted to do away with the petrol entirely and just use an EFI manifold/plenum/throttlebody, and Megajolt it. One chap I read the account of was running just BLOS LPG on a truck up in the wilds of Canada, and said it ran flawlessly through the bloody chilly winters up there. I've just ordered the carb, and should things go to plan, I'll have a capri and a 2.9 24v V6 to put it on buy the end of the week Oops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 I'd be interested in how easy it is to make MS drive LPG injectors. I've read about the impedance problems, LPG injectors are low impedance (1.9 Ohm) and petrol injectors are high impedance (9 Ohm)? How exactly is this a problem for MS, and can it maybe be solved easily? It would be absolutely brilliant to have the autotune capabilities of MS for LPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 I am slowly working my way towards lpg injection I fitted a new inlet manifold last weekend that I have pre-drilled for injector nozzles. Most lpg injectors are low impedance vs most petrol injectors being high impedance (except flapper). If you look at the peak and hold boards on jbperf.com I have confirmation from Jean Belanger that they should allow you to run both types of injector, simply switching the positive feed between the two. All I need to do now is order a vap unit, some piping and the peak and hold boards... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Be interested to hear how you get on Quagmire. You're making my vapour head start spinning again. I was thinking of upgrading my cooker ring to a BLOS carb, but if you can figure this out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted May 14, 2013 Share Posted May 14, 2013 Hrmm. Do you really need the peak and hold board? From the ExtraEFI site: All MS ECU's will need to drive high impedance injectors for fully sequential injection, lo-impedance injectors will need resistors adding in series to make them effectively high impedance Would just adding a resistor in front of each LPG injector work? Or would that be too easy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ079 Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Quagmire could you keep us all updated on how you get on, Sounds like just the thing im after. Im got a lot of building to do before i worry about all the wiring proberly be 2/3 months. Hopefully Ill be ording a megasquirt system if I can use a pair of peak and hold boards to run my lpg with it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Will keep everyone updated- may be some time though as my wife is driving the car everyday and I am having to use her car at the mo as my company has moved and height restriction on new car park is too low. This virtually rules out me making any changes that might cause the 90 to not run. Plan to resume later this summer when I have purchased another (lower) vehicle and the 90 is not being used everyday.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggylad Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Very curious as to how one plumbs in a BLOS..... as my LPG system (3.5 on SU's ) is not very well at the mo As said above, you stick the BLOS on between the air box and the Y piece. To do this, I had to get a new piece of large bore flexi hose, a short piece of alloy tube and another of silicon hose (which I then cut in half) and some jubilee clips: and you will probably also need a longer piece of gas hose to run from the reducer to the BLOS. Before you remove the mixers you've got at the moment, it is worth making sure that the LPG mixture at the reducer is as close to correctly adjusted as you can get it. Once its fitted, tuning is pretty simple (instructions - in slightly dodgy, but understandable, English - are provided). Ideally you need an exhuast gas analyser, but you can get pretty close by trial & error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kourgath Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 LPG tank between the chassis rails is a great place to put it. Mine has been there for at least 10 years. I RTV the 90 so no problems. Just in the process of building up the loom for MS2 on my ex-GEMS 4.6 - it probably won't work but then that would be normal! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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