Tetsu0san Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Hi all I am in the process of putting a Discovery 200Tdi into my 110 with a Defender R380 and a Discovery LT230. These are currently all separated and I am trying to do as much to them while they are out of the vehicle, without going completely overboard. I have done/am doing the following: Engine Cam belt Rocker gasket Front crankshaft oil seal Head gasket Rear crankshaft oil seal Flywheel to block seal Core plugs on the rear of the engine (just in case) New clutch Serviced Manifold to turbo gasket (replaced studs too, one snapped off, then all snapped off!) R380 Welded a plate to the clutch fork (make it a heavy duty fork)LT230 Replace the bearings on the input gear (I have a new gear coming, but not sure if it is the right one ) Intermediate shaft 'O' ring The gearbox and transfer box will get an oil change when in the vehicle. So is there anything that you could advise that I should do while it's all out of the vehicle and easy to get to? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverik Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Check, starter motor (and be completely happy with it...) Clutch slave cylinder overhaul/replace Check the bolts/holes on the lower section of the bellhousing/flywheelhousing, you may need to drill some new holes in the bellhousing... - I'm a tad confused as a 200tdi wont mate up to an standard R380 without either having a "shorty" gearbox or moving your engine mounts towards the front of the vehicle... I think you've got all the other big things. Mav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 I am replacing a transit engine in the 110 and I am going to be putting in new engine mounts anyway. I am hopefully fitting a Discovery gearbox crossmember too to bring the gearbox a little further forwards as well, so eventually the whole thing *should* fit in more or less the Defender 300Tdi position. The engine was out of my Discovery so I know most of it is pretty much OK. The R380 mates to it without any issues, so I suspect that either the engine or the gearbox has been modified in some way before I got them. Didn't think about the slave cylinder, that is a good point. How about the gearbox output shaft oil seal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 An off the wall idea here .... paint the engine. It's the only time you'll get the chance to do it properly and if you use a nice bright colour you can see oil leaks a lot easier ..... and before they get really bad. When I did my engine swap I also did the big end bearings ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 I thought about painting it too. Clean it up, degrease it and make it look nice and pretty. Paint it yellow to match the body colour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Brock Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Painted mine whilst it was out and nice and clean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Just put a 200tdi from a disco in a 90, literally finished today. Read the various conversion specialists write-ups. Specifically glencoyne and steve parker. The clutch pipe bracket on the footwell needs to be moved, to be honest, there is so little room on the side of the footwell i would be tempted to repipe it under the engine (with suitable brackets fabbed up) and put the flexi between engine and master cylinder. Have a look at your flywheel housing, do you have 4 allen head bolts at the bottom? If not these must be fitted or the flywheel housing will leak oil like a sieve (explained in detail on glencoynes site). I strongly recommend you clock the turbo to give you some room to get the intercooler hoses on, it is possible without but it is very tight to the inner wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 I don't think I will need to do anything like you have because the R380 having a longer bellhousing will move the engine forward, and the crossmember will bring it forward even more. From what I can see I will either have to cut the seatbox to accommodate the gearbox or just get a 300Tdi/TD5 seatbox instead. But the pipework should not cause a problem as the engine is away from the bulkhead. As for the flywheel housing, I don't think I do have these allen bolts. But this has just been removed from my Discovery and it didn't leak in that. Where do these allen bolts go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 It wouldnt leak in the discovery as the 4 big bolts you would have removed between the engine and gearbox went right through the flywheel housing and into the ladder frame, sandwiching the lot together. When fitted to a different gearbox, these bolts can't be put back in. The solution is to counterbore the holes in the flywheel housing and insert the bolts flush to the surface so that the gearbox can go over the top. http://www.glencoyne.co.uk/tdiguid2.htm explained in detail there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 Ah, I hadn't checked that. I only mated the two together without bolts. Cheers for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Going to have a look at the bellhousing later, but can I not just put the LT77 bellhousing straight onto the R380? That way I have all the functionality of the R380 with none of the messing around with making new holes etc? And then in theory I would be able to remove the ladder chassis (if I needed to) without removing the gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave88sw Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Sorry, it's not that simple. Disco lt77 and r380 are the same length overall with the bellhousings on, however, the r380 is longer in the gearbox itself and therefore has a shorther bellhousing and input shaft. The lt77 bellhousing would be too long. It's not a lot of work to fit the 4 bolts, the kits are unneccessarily expensive, all you need is 4 m10 x 80mm cap head bolts. Then a counterbore to open a hole for the head to sit in. To be honest, a standard drill bit sligtly bigger than the bolt head would suffice, it would leave a tapered hole but the bolt would still tighten up happily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I don't see why moving the gearbox X-member and the gearbox is helpful, that will move the LT230 as well and take it away from what is presumably the standard defender position right now? As Dave says, the R380 is longer but their bellhousings are shorter to make up for it, so the two halves don't interchange. Also - fit an HD clutch release bearing (as in "not a plastic one"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 There are 2 "standard" defender positions. 300tdi and TD5 have the LT230 about 2" forward of the earlier position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 The R380 bolts straight onto the flywheel housing with no modifications at all. The 4 longer bolts that go through the flywheel housing into the ladder chassis line up and I don't have to make any modifications at all. Am I missing something or just lucky? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 The difference is your using an R380. The usual fitment issue comes when trying to use the old short LT77 box and its bellhousing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! Now I get it! There was an information overload there for a while. Now everything is clear! An off the wall idea here .... paint the engine. It's the only time you'll get the chance to do it properly and if you use a nice bright colour you can see oil leaks a lot easier ..... and before they get really bad. The block is bright red now! Didn't get any yellow as my Dad has some left over from an old Thames Trader rebuild he did a little while back. Like Father, like Son... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!Now I get it! There was an information overload there for a while. Now everything is clear! The block is bright red now! Didn't get any yellow as my Dad has some left over from an old Thames Trader rebuild he did a little while back. Like Father, like Son... Lol, I painted mine bright red when I swapped mine You certainly notice it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 I only painted the iron bits, left the alloy. But you were right, it's a shed load easier to do when it's out of the vehicle. I found under the oil and dirt that the block was painted gold too which may have indicated it was a recon engine. It certainly went well before I took it out of the Discovery. Anyway, gaskets, oil seals, clutch, input gear etc have been replaced and now it's all ready to go in. I think I might do a build thread as this seems like a more unusual engine swap compared to the usual 200Tdi/300Tdi into Defender stuff. And I will have a few bits to get rid of at the end too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 Just an update, engine is in, gearbox is in using a Discovery crossmember, Discovery Transfer box has been installed with brand new input gear, seatbox is altered (butchered), pipework is modified, power steering is in, props have been swapped for Discovery and Defender 300Tdi ones, exhaust is modified and it runs and drives. A few extra bits needed doing along the way, footwells, rear chassis was rotten and needed welding and a few other things. Tomorrow is MOT day. Lets just see how that goes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Good luck with the MOT Oh and where is the obligatory under the bonnet picture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 Like with most things, I started with the best intentions to do a build thread, but when you get into it you just forget to take pictures. I will however take a load tomorrow of all the stuff that I have to mess about with to get it all to fit, including the obligatory engine bay picture. Unless it fails the MOT, in which case I will be hiding in a pint glass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsu0san Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Pictures! Engine bay shot Another engine bay shot As I wanted to use the cowling and the viscous fan from the Discovery I found that getting the radiator the right height was a little tricky. I had to cut down the chassis radiator mounts as most conversion people will tell you, but this still left the radiator too high for the cowling to fit. The Discovery radiator and intercooler is in a metal frame so I put the top plate of the frame on the bottom (with pins welded into it to fit into the slots) and then used the bottom plate on the top. This mounted the radiator just low enough so the cowling fitted. However, I haven't actually put the cowling on... I had to relocate the washer bottle as the airbox in in the place where the bottle was The turbo 'snail' was clocked to allow the output pipe to clear the inner wheelarch. I have actually routed the pipework up and over the alternator as this seemed the best way to do it. I have used the original Discovery metal pipe and I have also fitted another pipe coming up from the bottom pipe on the intercooler A bracket was fabricated for the PAS bottle. This 110 didn't have power steering originally The gearbox is mounted on a Discovery 300Tdi gearbox crossmember which brings the gearbox a little further forward than it was originally. This also allowed the pipework in the engine bay (oil cooler and engine to radiator pipes) to fit as normal Gear levers and in the standard place I had to cut the seatbox to allow for the gearbox being further forward. And I made a little box to cover the hole. The floors also had to be cut and the tunnel has been modified, but I am not happy with the tunnel so I will look at an alternative And to top it all off, it passed its MOT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CwazyWabbit Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Congrats on the MOT pass Looks like you had to do a lot of work to get it all fitted, nice to see a tidy job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Hunter Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Congrats on doing a really neat job and passing the MOT first try. I have a question on terminology that you can help me with, please. What do you mean by: "The turbo 'snail' was clocked to allow the output pipe to clear the inner wheelarch."? My understanding of "clocking" is the use of a dial indicator to measure free play or out of roundness, but that appears inappropriate in this context. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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