Nigelw Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Whilst looking for something else I stumbled upon a picture of a D2 rear radius arm. From just looking at it I am wondering what advantage if any there is from the radius arm and watts linkage to the old fashioned links and A frame ball joint? But I also wonder if these would/could be used in substitution of the rather flimsy links with the A frame? Having seen far too many bent ones now I think some beefing up would be in order but do these offer any type of alternative as the axle brackets are readily available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 I wonder if they would be any use on the front for more flex? How does the bush spacing on the axle compare to the normal Rover radius arms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 12, 2013 Author Share Posted November 12, 2013 Not sure but look at the chassis mounting. It has a round bush as opposed the older spigot bushing, surely this would be better for articulation and easily set when adjusting suspension heights? As the axle tube has not changed greatly I wonder if they are a direct fit to the axle and only needing modded with mount on the chassis rail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Not sure but look at the chassis mounting. It has a round bush as opposed the older spigot bushing, surely this would be better for articulation and easily set when adjusting suspension heights? As the axle tube has not changed greatly I wonder if they are a direct fit to the axle and only needing modded with mount on the chassis rail? I don't think there is much useful gain from the chassis end. Yes it has a lot more flex than the normal ones, but its the axle end bushings which restrict normal arms' travel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 One-link it Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 My own supposition was that the D2's double radius arm set up brought better balance front and rear. Equally restrictive in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 My own supposition was that the D2's double radius arm set up brought better balance front and rear. Equally restrictive in other words. Indeed. If you get the springrates right, you will have balanced suspension. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 If used on the rear axle with the D2 rear radius arms would it just be a case of packaging a panhard rod for axle location as the Watts linkabe seems overly complicated for what it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Yes, a panhard would work just as well, but would make the axle swing in an arc. See the setup on a P38, 2 panhards and radius arms all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Silly question as I have never looked under a P38, but do the panhards front and rear swing together or against each other? Am I right in thinking that if I used the trailing radius arms then the A frame cannot be used? Sorry if this seems kiddy stuff compared with the immense indepth 74 link things you guys get into but looking to get my head around how it all works and forces and principles, I read a lot of threads around the net but got a bit bamboozled and narked as the banter and the "that will never work" comments pushed some things I found interesting and understandable off the grid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Good question. They seem to swing together on a LHD vehicle, and against each other on a RHD vehicle. RAVE shows the rear chassis mounting point to be on the left side of the chassis, which would be the same as is needed in the front to not have bumpsteer. Actually somewhat surprised, as usually LR products seem to be designed for RHD. Or they were designed to cross, but I'm not sure what advantage that would bring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Perhaps the issue of adapting the back from an A frame (with lots of travel) to radius arms (without lots of travel) is that you'd need to be welding new mounts into the axle casing etc .. For the same type of work you could be converting the front to say a 3 link set up, where you get lots of travel at both ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 This is not an exercise about getting silly amounts of travel as I am not a fan of wheels dangling 6 feet in the air, but more about finding a good strong reliable set up that uses all stock components off the shelf from any land rover dealer, but built up in such a way to be balanced and forgiving, oh and it kind of has to look like it was meant to be there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 I may have misrepresented myself a little there - I wasn't inferring 6' of travel as being the goal. Merely balanced travel - which was my original point further up the thread. A choice between balanced compliant and non binding travel against balanced binding non compliant travel - I'd fall on the side of the former. To use standard parts will effectively rule out both though - due to the axle and chassis modifications needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 I may have misrepresented myself a little there - I wasn't inferring 6' of travel as being the goal. Merely balanced travel - which was my original point further up the thread. A choice between balanced compliant and non binding travel against balanced binding non compliant travel - I'd fall on the side of the former. To use standard parts will effectively rule out both though - due to the axle and chassis modifications needed. Ah no, not having a dig, this is about a truck that could be being built as a kind of comp safari motor where it is more about speed cross country not boulder hopping or mud running, if it works out then pretty much running gear is D2 as there is one sitting in the yard and I don't like the Watts linkage so want that out of the way, chassis would be brand new and can be built as per my own spec hence lots of questions. I kind of see the whole binding issue but for me I do not see any disadvantage from radius arms at the back as it will have radius arms at the front so if anything it would even out and balance, or am I over simplifying???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 This is not an exercise about getting silly amounts of travel as I am not a fan of wheels dangling 6 feet in the air, but more about finding a good strong reliable set up that uses all stock components off the shelf from any land rover dealer, but built up in such a way to be balanced and forgiving, oh and it kind of has to look like it was meant to be there too. Erm Nige, may I point out, that lots of travel means that wheels DONT dangle 6ft in the AIR ! Limited travel means that they CAN and DO ! How after reading all the various suspension threads,did your understanding of the concept end up so back arsewards ? I have to type a Smiley, because they are not working for me yet again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 IIRC these types of arms were prefered for Comp Safari use as they allow good virtical travel and beter location I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 14, 2013 Author Share Posted November 14, 2013 Erm Nige, may I point out, that lots of travel means that wheels DONT dangle 6ft in the AIR ! Limited travel means that they CAN and DO ! How after reading all the various suspension threads,did your understanding of the concept end up so back arsewards ? I have to type a Smiley, because they are not working for me yet again. I think it was more the way I typed it Bill What i meant to say was or at least try to put it was that for the typical types of driving I do and wish to do, the whole extreme travel and wheel hanging six foot away from the truck is not something that I find appealing or necessary, admittedly I do see where it is an advantage when ground undulations require good articulation and flexibility to keep wheels in contact with the ground, but I don't do winching only really as a means of self recovery, trials are a hoot for me with an RTV type event but beyond that again it has gotten to the point of silly money and grand engineering. If you see what I mean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 If you see what I mean I saw what you meant in the first place Nigel, but was feeling a bit mischievous this morning before heading off to work. An emoticon would have conveyed that, but for some reason they are swiched off to me most of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Haha! I dont get smileys either when on my tablet, but probably a good thing. What is your take on adius front and rear Bill? I know you are more into articulation and keeping wheels floating about the chassis but for high speed off road and light trialling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill van snorkle Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Haha! I dont get smileys either when on my tablet, but probably a good thing. What is your take on adius front and rear Bill? I know you are more into articulation and keeping wheels floating about the chassis but for high speed off road and light trialling? My opinion of RA's for the type of high speed/trialing offroading is quite positive. RA's give similar squat/antisquat/antidive characteristics to One links/3 links but more stable high/medium speed handling, without the occasionally harsh increase in spring rates for single wheel bumps that antiroll bars give. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelw Posted November 15, 2013 Author Share Posted November 15, 2013 Speed wise will be around the 50 to 80kph mark but will exceed with ease as I can screw up getting across town without getting lost so not holding out much hope for anything else. I am expecting a bit of hill climbing too so really wondering whether wheel base should be longer than 90"?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Well it's likely to be 93.9" anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Well it's likely to be 93.9" anyways -anorak mode on- its 92.9". -anorak mode off- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 15, 2013 Share Posted November 15, 2013 Ooops, typo, honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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