Team Idris Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 X-Ramps (only kidding Si) The waffles get full of clay (Typically at Broseley by the River 7) and become very heavy to lift ! It took both of us to lift them back on the truck last time out there. So I've been thinking steel ramps for a couple of years, but I just couldn't see a viable solution? Anyhoo, it finally came to me that I needed rungs that were structural, so I've come up with this design. Not sure how to use them yet, as there are 2 ends and 2 sides? It'll depend on the ground and the obstacle I recon Good points are holes to 'spike' them to the ground. Bad points are that they aren't 'light weight', only lighter than a clay filled waffle board. 30x30x3mm box for the sides and 25x25x2mm for the crosses they are a pig to make. A cut off saw that can do 45 and 5 degrees is a must to build them. They easily swallowed 0.75kg of 0.8 mig wire. I honestly enjoyed the challenge Under the rear wheel of the beast I got 2mm of deviation, which isn't bad for something 4ft long. (Beast weighs 1850 kg total and the ends of the ramp were supported on blocks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 Looking good, should do the job fine, another nice addition would be if you made them so that you can put them together to form one long ramp, didn't have to be a solid connection could be hinged, I could see a lot of situations where that would be very usefull! Over tree trunks, long holes etc etc. If you have the ability you could have made them out of Ali instead, would be just as strong at half the weight. But more expensive material and most people don't have anything to weld Ali with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 I've seen the end to end opening, but not how? Maybe one could slide into the other, but it's a big ask on leverage. It'd be cool if they could The other task I can see them doing is forming an 'A' frame at the top of steep slopes. We regularly have a problem where the rope hugging the ground at the top of a bank pulls the truck into the ground, rather than up, just before we reach the top. If the rope is held artificially high it keeps the rope pointing the right way out of the winch to keep it generating lift. I can think of two occasions where this artificial tree would have worked very well for us. I have access to aluminium fabrication facilities, but I'd like to see how these two work out first. Because of the 'easy home fix' of steel I chose it over ally. Steel is cheap to R&D on as well. My initial plan was ally sand mats, but in 4mm 5083. As a concept it never inspired me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 2, 2014 Share Posted February 2, 2014 They look pretty good and should be very effective, but I don't think they're geodesic! Geodesic structures are made of three-sided pyramids (actually four sided if you include the base) for lightweight rigidity. These look very tough and have an open design, but they're heavy and two-dimensional. They're a lattice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted February 2, 2014 Author Share Posted February 2, 2014 I had the same argument with myself I looked at the Vickers Wellington construction inspired by Barnes Wallis in Wikipedia. It does have a third longitudinal member, so I'm pushing/abusing the name. But I wouldn't say lattice either, because that usually runs in one flat strut from one side to the other. I'd lock it into lattice if my struts didn't have 5 degree cuts at the end to make the structure dished. If atoms in structure form 'lattice', then these ramps are probably closer to that than geodesic, just to change my mind Minimalist-geodesic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharger Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 With the 5-degree cant on the rungs I'd say they're geodesic - loving the structural approach to the rungs as well, I think that's a well thought-out product. They still look heavy though - I'd love to see the same thing with more, lighter rungs to really get the weight out. (I don't love the idea enough to get some steel myself, mind... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 Ummm - IF the answer isn't TOO rude; What's wrong with Mantec Bridging ladders? :-) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted February 3, 2014 Author Share Posted February 3, 2014 With 2mm of flex with say 400kg on them I'd say less is more on the next set? But they haven't taken a run up with a 2 tonne truck yet! Same old story though, got to build an alpha prototype to build a Beta Mantec look good. Not rude at all I could probably do those for less than £80. (cost of a sheet). But I recon they would cover in clay and become slick very quickly. Surface area might make them stay 'sucked' into the clay as well? If the task looks like the Mantec would work, I'd probably get better service from the waffle boards I have, because they have the non slip surface? I have a light-weight set of ramps a bit like the mantec in 2mm checker plate and they are also well handy for hedge cutting and the like. In a way I can see the truck carrying the new steel ramps and the waffles? Other then their natural magnetism for clay, the waffles are a mean bit of kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoltan Posted February 3, 2014 Share Posted February 3, 2014 What about a clay shedding covering over a waffle board, something like a rubber inner tube sleeve so that as it is unloaded and lifted off the ground the rubber automatically cleans the clay out? Ice climbing crampons use an antiballing surface underneath to stop the snow sticking and balling up underneath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Writing of an alternative approach, some time ago I bought second-hand a small trailer (4ft x 5ft), which had been used by a parcel delivery firm. The plywood base had been coated with a textured and abrasive surface so that parcels, I guess mainly cardboard boxes, could be just placed on the surface and be inhibited from sliding around too much, and being damaged by banging into one another. This coating can perhaps best be described as thick stodgy underseal with a LOT of sand mixed in. It was a hard surface though, with non of the 'flexible and impact absorbing' nature that underseal / body shutz often display. The end result was aggressive enough to dissuade me from ever wanting to drag my hands over the surface when loading anything, because I was convinced I'd be leaving flesh behind.I've never seen any of the aftermarket 'truck bed liner' paints actually applied, but I've rather assumed that the better ones, at least, provide a similar finish. What I'm working round to saying is that should I ever get around to making traction boards / bridging ladders of any description, a uniform abrasive finish on at least one of the wearing surfaces would be part of the specification. I've had tyres spin on the steel surfaces of ramps, and on wet scaffolding planks. I have no faith whatsoever in a dimpled surface, or in one pierced with holes, to provide the grip supplied by dry tarmac, and yet that ought to be the aim. Rubber tyres grip best on tarmac, so surely the aim should be to reach the grip offered by the high grip surfaces frequently found on the approaches to pedestrian crossings, traffic lights, roundabouts, etc. So, not having the fabrication skills or enthusiasm to make aluminium ones from scratch, I'd be looking to buy suitable 'truck bed liner' paint to enhance whatever I bought. The aim would be to get grip without wheel spin, which I admit would probably ruin any 'coated' surface.Yesterdays Google search for Mantec bridging ladders bought out several 'missed' examples on ebay that had clearly sold second-hand for a lot less than the new price. (Now watch for a price surge!!). An alternative would be fibregrid waffle boards, but with plain (not checkerplate) aluminium sheet on one side, coated with a high grip surface. Flat side down would inhibit sinking into mud, although I've very little experience of clay. There might be a need to make some hairpin 'pegs' to inhibit the slide of the board as it tries to transmit the tyre tractive effort to the ground. Just to make it clear, apart from the load bed of the trailer, everything else is 'vapourware' as far as my efforts are concerned. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 David - that sounds like gel coat with sand in, I believe it's a trade secret recipe for anti-slip decking etc. on boats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 I can't say you are wrong, but if you are correct it's been a trade secret for a long time. :-) Since my earlier posting I've discovered I bought the Conway Glidealong WM750 second-hand in March 1990. Visually, the closest they do now is the 506 wheels under load-bed design, although mine is a foot shorter, at 5ft long, and braked. They say it has a "Non-slip phenol coated floor.", but as I can't see a picture of the surface I can't say if that is the same. Somewhere I have a sales leaflet when it was in current production, but as it didn't come to light immediately I'll leave it. I've introduced the concept of using a high friction coating, and that was the main point of posting. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris113 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 David, If you were to find a suitable material to make the initial board from, it would be interesting to see how something along the lines of skateboard grip tape would work. We use a marine version on the racing boats and it's very grippy with rubber soles on, it has a belt-sander effect on bare skin though. I've also used grip paint with good effect before, especially if you mix some extra sand into it and stir it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 David, The main issue you'd have with using aluminium plating on waffle boards is that the waffles bend. A lot. The plate would buckle and then hold the waffles in a curve. If you applied the aluminium as a series of pates, almost like tank tracks, then it should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Idris Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 A clay shedding surface is interesting. It's in there so well it is hard to push out with a stick! best way is ignore it, let it dry and falls out I did ring and ask about a tapered square hole, but the moulds are a bit specific There is that waffle version with a flat top. (it's all walkway). It has the same non-slip surface. Anodised ally would stick to the glass fibre very well on the underside. That would act as a tensile brace and stop clay coming into the holes from underneath. Would be a neat mix of metals, fibres and resins for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 The problem with plating one side of the waffle is that it'll be tough to get the mud out afterwards. It's going to get in there off your tyres anyway, and if you've ever been to Kirton you'll know the mud sets like concrete - last time we went I had to knock the dry mud out of the waffles with a hammer and chisel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sparkes Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 OK, that's good input from various people, based on direct experience, thankyou. As I said in my previous posts Just to make it clear, apart from the load bed of the trailer, everything else is 'vapourware' as far as my efforts are concerned. and I've introduced the concept of using a high friction coating, and that was the main point of posting. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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