Tom1809 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Eventually I'll be getting under way with my challenge truck build and slowly acquiring parts and bits whilst I rebuild the daily driver. Richards will be supplying me with one of there 100" challenge spec chassis but I'll be needing to add my own mounts for the box and engine. I've laid my hands on to a new still in crate ls3 motor from a over enthusiastic range rover guy who simply realised he couldn't do what he wanted for a price I couldn't resist and if I can't do what I want I think it can be easily moved on. The main items I have brought are the following and there's lots of little things included that's required. http://www.partsworldperformance.com/ls376-525-v8-crate-engine-19301360 http://www.partsworldperformance.com/supermatic-4l70-e-four-speed-automatic-transmission-four-wheel-drive http://www.partsworldperformance.com/ls376-525-ecu-controller-kit The question is tho, what transfer box? And I doubt the land rover axles will be to cope with the torque and power going through it. So looking at the American axles. Spider Traxs is out of the question so been looking at some of the Dana axles. I'm hoping to get under way with the build in April/May next year so got time to plan and keep the money coming in to really build and and then compete with it the following year, and we will be using the daily driver for a few events next year. It's going to be a ground up vehicle so to road register it I'll be going down the sva route, Cheers all Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 LT230's are pretty tough, the one in Mouse stood up to an LS. Land rover axles don't stand a snowball in hell's chance. With the LS you're going to have to be a bit careful no matter what axles you buy, unless you want the truck to weigh as much as the moon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Stuff some Patrol or LC80 axles under there with uprated CVs and you should just about be OK... And yes, the LT230 is one thing LR got right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 If an lt230 can take it I guess the simply thing would be to get an adapter made up to go from the 4l70 box. Failing that are there any other options? Axle wise I was thinking of going down the route of dana 60's with some upgrades from the states front and rear, the problem is finding a pair in the uk. At the moment I'm spending a huge amount of time reading through the hideous amount of information on the net trying to find what they where fitted to and if it was ever imported in the uk. I am aware of the rear dana 60 been a centre mounted diff but with a 100" wheel base I am sure I can get away with prop with out it been at to extreme angles. The other option is the dana 44 which some options seem to be just as strong as the 60. Any advice on these would be much appreciated as it would save the brain from aching too much. Other axle options I guess are going to be Toyota,gu axles or possibly merc g wagon and retain the standard diff locks. I always guessed so much power and torque will require a little more thinking before just booting it. I originally planned to go td5 route and keep it simple but I had the carrot dangled in front of me. I guess it will help with the ultra 4 comps been on the top of my list to compete in. Once again thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave W Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I've been running my LS1/6 through Land Rover axles with Ashcroft internals since 2007, not yet broken anything in the axle although I have twisted a prop shaft off - since upgraded to BM props so it hasn't happened again. I'm running an LT230 using a Marks 4WD Adaptors adaptor kit on the back of the auto box (4L80E in my case). I have killed a couple of LT230s but that was entirely down to operator error - NEVER run the LT230 without diff lock engaged on a loose surface where you are putting power down, the centre diff simply isn't up to spinning one prop that much faster than the other and will die very quickly. With diff lock in the LT230 is bomb proof. If you're going with Dana or similar axles and want something more exotic/expensive, the Atlas transfer boxes are really good and you can order them with different output flange options both in type and position. If you get a rear axle with a central diff and a front axle with an offset diff you can get an Atlas box to suit. Selectable 2/4 wheel drive also gives real scope for some fun with tail sliding and burnouts ! One thing to think about is heat dissipation at low speeds - while a TD5 seems to be almost impossible to get warm enough for the heater to work unless your pushing it, the big V8s will almost inevitably give heat problems simply as a result of the power output and the confined under bonnet space, particularly on a Defender style of layout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 The plan was for no radiators at all in the front. With the big v8 in there, the giggle pin winch, coil overs and air shocks the space like you said is very limited to get enough cooling capacity. The plan is to rear mount an ali sport custom radiator and fit an external water pump. For the transmission I think the best bet for cooling is an oil to water cooler instead of to air. The engine oil can be done to air through the correct size oil cooler again most likely mounted at the rear or may be the only radiator in the front. I just don't want to longer run and reduced oil pressure. My concern tho is the sump and the oil pick up point on the engine. I haven't done much reading into the details of where it's located but my guessing is to be make a custom sump and pick up point like most land rover sumps to give adequate oil and pick up. I had just been reading up on the atlas transfer box's and discovered exactly what you had said. They also do a 4 speed version so you can set different ratios for different applications. I'm going to do some more investigating and make my decision then. I think I've almost settled on a pair of dana axles and with the correct upgrades from the states should be ok for my application till I can get enough cash or be one of the very very rare people to have spider trax offer a substantial discount. The only problem I have now is the more i design and start planing the challenge truck, the daily driver seems to becoming less of a priority. It's almost at the point of just selling everything I don't need from it and start straight on the challenge truck as the only thing it does is tow the caravan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 you could, with a bit of creativity, use a Salisbury in the back, which is basically a Dana 60 with puny halfshafts, and get the stubshafts drilled out to Dana 60 axles and then fit a Dana locker with the correct splines. Would keep the diff in the right location, and also all the suspension mounts should you wish to run that. Just an idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 The front axle would be staying pretty much the same bar the coil overs. The rear tho will be 4 linked, sway bared and coil overs. So none of the standard Land-rover brackets would be required. I might look into that tho as I could use a Salisbury front to match. I guess Ashcroft would be the go to guys to drill the stub shafts out. It's wether cost, function and reliability work out right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 What about nissan patrol axles , about the same size as the old ENV . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 From the research I have done the nissan patrol axles the Aussies seem to fit to everything are as rare as rocking horse poo in this country, the axles was a option on a very specific year and they are rare here. Me looking for a pair of those and I'm sure there will be others i would have to stumble on some luck, I am already sure I've had my years worth of luck with this engine. I am fortunate to know where there is a Salisbury front and rear axle and if I want them I'm sure I'd be able to persuade him to give it up. What I want to make sure is that the dana 60 diff will fit and if I get the stub shafts drilled out will it be the weak link. Cheers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 14bolt rear d60 front Chevy transfer case. Easiest / strongest way. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Yeah well using the Salisbury front isn't as easy or good in any ways except for the very strong R&P. (unless we're talking 101" which is the shizzle ) And if you're going to do 4-link anyways there's no real reason to bother. Being a bit blunt I'd say stay miles away from Toys or Nissans for what you wan't to build you might as Ashcroft a Rover axle as the aforementioned will break just as often but be waaaay more expensive in parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Zim what set up? Gm or ford? I think I've settled on the atlas transfer case. Sent them an email last night and got a reply with some very useful information and a price tag to match. The axles are my sticking point, I have spent some time doing some drawings and designs for what I want and will upload them soon. Soren I think the only reliable axle is going to be the dana 60. The rear will be 4 linked but the front will stay hockey stick set up and use landrover suspension geometry. All I need is to find a set of these axles and I'll get on the phone to Alastair at Richards and get my chassis built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 If your interested my mates selling a front and rear Dana80's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 Mark the dana 80 was only ever made as a rear axle. Are you sure they ain't 60's? If they are and the price is right then I'm interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 70 front* and 80 rear and he said they owe him 550 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted August 13, 2014 Share Posted August 13, 2014 An 80 is a big axle... but very strong. Ford or Chevy.... the ford D60 front is high pinion, but not as strong as chevy from what i'm informed. Personally i'd go chevy, which is right hand drop and then upgrade to a set of 35 spline outters, change the inners and joints if you wish as well. Why atlas ? What's wrong with something like an np205 - will cost you £1500 less and can be made just as strong. Although the low ratio is only 2:1 My upcoming build is TH400, NP205, NP203 doubler, D80 rear diff, 14b front diff, 47 spline front and rear. Rear inners are only 40 spline so i can use an ARB, front has a spool. I purposely didn't go for an atlas but will run the 205 with a 34 spline titan shaft + other small upgrades inside. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 13, 2014 Author Share Posted August 13, 2014 The reason of the atlas box in the end was the fact it can be manufactured to be a direct fit with out the need of adapters. The box can be configurable to the axles I plan to use to. The other nice feature is with the 4 speed you can actually have three different ratios so can be set up for rock, mud or what ever so a variety of terrains can be over come with out it been a compromise. You build sound interesting, will you be racing in the ultra 4 series then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtyninety Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 70 front* and 80 rear and he said they owe him 550 I presume thats Barnaby? An 80 is a big axle... but very strong. Ford or Chevy.... the ford D60 front is high pinion, but not as strong as chevy from what i'm informed. Personally i'd go chevy, which is right hand drop and then upgrade to a set of 35 spline outters, change the inners and joints if you wish as well. Why atlas ? What's wrong with something like an np205 - will cost you £1500 less and can be made just as strong. Although the low ratio is only 2:1 My upcoming build is TH400, NP205, NP203 doubler, D80 rear diff, 14b front diff, 47 spline front and rear. Rear inners are only 40 spline so i can use an ARB, front has a spool. I purposely didn't go for an atlas but will run the 205 with a 34 spline titan shaft + other small upgrades inside. G The reason of the atlas box in the end was the fact it can be manufactured to be a direct fit with out the need of adapters. The box can be configurable to the axles I plan to use to. The other nice feature is with the 4 speed you can actually have three different ratios so can be set up for rock, mud or what ever so a variety of terrains can be over come with out it been a compromise. You build sound interesting, will you be racing in the ultra 4 series then ? Your both useless without pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomark10 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 I presume thats Barnaby? tis indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 I presume thats Barnaby? Your both useless without pictures! Well the chassis will be ordered from Richards next week and depending on how busy alistar is then i will start. In the mean time I have the td5 90 to rebuild that's become rather urgent after a lovely transit driver done this to my partners mini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1809 Posted August 17, 2014 Author Share Posted August 17, 2014 Well unfortunately I've missed out in barnabys axles but so be it, so back to now working on finding a set of axles again. But they are rocking horse poo over here so unless I go sprider trax I have no other option but to import from the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 I have a 14b rear for sale. Currently on 8 stud dually hubs, but about to bring in my first set of LR pattern hubs with wilwood calipers to suit. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_grieve Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Are RB44 axles a cheap UK way into full size Dana ownership? I know they have a limited slip in the rear. I'm no expert on them but they must have decent axles to have a 5.5 ton GVW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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