ejparrott Posted November 25, 2014 Author Share Posted November 25, 2014 Finished! ...and i'm absolutly done in! Time to go to work now, and i've got no bread for my sandwiches! All seems to work, think the backs perhaps need adjusting up as the pedal travel seems a bit long but no sign of the back locking up. Will finish off tomorrow...or maybe thursday...might have a day off tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soren Frimodt Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Haha good on you mate! My 80" has been absolutely transformed after the disc brakes up front, so I'm sure you are gonna like it too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 27, 2014 Author Share Posted November 27, 2014 So, just to finish off, the last bits of the install.Got the FWH refitted no problems - I find these very useful for sliding the wheel up!The callipers are overhanging the front of the hub face, and at this point I have to admit to panicking slightly, largely due to the fact this was the third day of working on it! I shot out and attacked a pair of old brake drums with the grinder then whipped them in the lathe to make a pair of spacers.......looking at it though they may not be required. I mentioned it to Will and he says yes some wheels flick out quick enough to avoid the callipers, and some callipers are shallower than others. My callipers are both AP Lockheed and came off the same vehicle, and they're different to each other! If it's dry at the weekend I'll pop a wheel off and take the shim out, see if it works.Calliper all fitted up in the end, fit of a swine to get at the bolts with the swivel not being designed for a calliper but we got there. New bit of pipe up to the flexi (still connected to the old drums in this shot...just in case there were problems!!) and ready for bleeding - must say it's never been so easy to bleed brakes on her! You'll also note that the pads overhang the disc, mentioned this to Will and his are the same, but he's found that some pads are slightly shallower than others, and some discs are slightly larger than those, but after 50k he's had no issues - certainly there's non at the moment.Finally, you can barely tell I've done it, so I'm pleased. If I'd gone with black callipers you probably would never know, and if you found a way to fit series wheels they would be well hidden.She's braking beautifully straight, as you'd expect with all new bits. Pedal travel is a bit long, which might be that the rears need adjusting up, and there's still a trace of air in the system which is more than likely in the rear, I did put a whole easibleed of fluid through the callipers! There's been no indication of any attempt by the rear to lock up first, and we've got some greasy roads now. At the minute I've no plan to change the rear to disc, but I think I will investigate it - that should be much easier - he says!Would I do it again? Hmm..difficult one... On the aspect of maintenance definitely. On the increased likelihood of stopping in a straight line definitely. Using this style of kit...mmm..not sure. Maybe if I had more time to play around with fitting it to a spare axle on the bench rather than pushing to get it done in a very cramped carport in the rain. I love the fact you don't have to strip right down to the swivel pins, which I always hate doing! This kit was certainly well made, but Land Rover did not make my life easy when they made the hubs! New hubs are very likely, made as much as possible in one hit to get everything true, who knows, maybe it'll get rid of some vibration at speed truing that lot up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daan Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Nice job. did you try series wheels? I think the shape would actually clear the caliper. maybe the welded td5 wheels are better, if the rivet heads are a problem. Daan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Thumbs up mate, good job. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Just one question, as i am noticing that the pads sit further out from the disc radially? Or is it just an illusion? As i had the same issue by 3mm no matter how much i tried i could never get the caliper to sit closer to the swivel, unless i got even more grinder happy! What happens if that is the case the pads will wear with a ridge making them rattle around a little, not really an issue but just so you know. I usually file this ridge down (3mm) when inspecting the pads every six months, uless it falls off alone.. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 No, it does overhang. I asked Will about it and his is the same, he's done 50k with it no probs though. He has noticed that some discs are larger than others, and some pads are smaller than others. There's no way the calliper could be moved in any closer though! I've not tried any other wheels yet, I've a few knocking around I haven't got rid of yet. Going to try without a spacer one day at the weekend, and will also try some of the other wheels with and without. Going to try one of Phil's at some point too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zim Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Which discs are used ? LR front or rear ? Thanks G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Not wishing to knock your work in any way, there is some amazing machining work that I could only dream of in the build, but I'm thinking that's not a good solution, you really shouldn't have the pads outside of the disc, you will get to a point where the pads touch each other before they contact the disc! 'he's found that some pads are slightly shallower than others, and some discs are slightly larger than those' This sounds so wrong, brake components should be made to spec, crucially they should be the same outer diameter or they aren't the same disc! You certainly wouldn't accept this as 'right' if it were supplied as a replacement part for another vehicle. In my mind, either the caliper needs to sit further in (impossible I know) or you ought to have a bigger brake disc, is it possible you have the wrong one selected? The other option is to use a non-LR sliding caliper, like the RM kits which are much slimmer on the wheel side, appreciate there's no bracket for these, and thus your work is harder... As I say, some very good work involved here, and don't want to detract from it, but there does seem an issue here that seems to need resolving, of course if you are happy that's fine, and I'll just shut up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lewis Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 My rear pads overhang the disc in this way on my stock rrc axle. It's not been a problem - the pads go below minimum acceptable thickness before the overhanging lips contact each other. To my mind Bowie you are worrying about nothing. In my day job as a quality engineer I look at a variety of aftermarket and bespoke braking systems and would certainly reject this, but for an enthusiasts solution you surely have different criteria, everything is a compromise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 28, 2014 Author Share Posted November 28, 2014 Certainly not disagreeing with you at all Bowie, it's not an ideal solution I agree, and yes there is the risk of wearing the pads down to a point where they could contact each other and therefore fail. I'm more conscientious than to let that happen, sure the same can't be said for everyone who fits a conversion like this. The discs are 90 rear's with a nominal 298 diameter and 61.5mm height. I'll have a look round and see if I can find a 320 diameter disc with the same height give or take a mm, then I'll be happy. I want The 109 to have vented front discs, she's going to be heavy and I don't want to be cooking brakes. This kit will not support vented brakes so I think she'll have to go to the Heystee option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Ah ok, mine has never been an issue either, been running them since 2008, second set of pads this summer. What i used were 110 rear disc from a late td5 defender SDB000330, od is 298mm, hat is 58mm, ideally i found that a 300 or a 305 would be perfect in my setup, but i never found the right disc from any other vehicle with the right combination of dimensions. Might look into it again. Vented is a whole other ball game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Thanks for not leaping off the deep end ejparrot I had a look earlier, and later LR 90 rear discs are 290mm, so thought you may have picked up them by accident, doesn't sound like it though .... This is a really helpful tool to cross-reference brake discs: http://bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Search.aspx?SearchMode=Size How much to they overhang by? By your suggestion it is more than 10mm... or were you planning on machining them down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Oh, this one is useful too: http://www.brakeworld.co.uk/brakeworld/appguide/webhome.htm Found this pretty quickly with it: http://www.brakeworld.co.uk/brakeworld/buyguide/html/rs3248.htm .. and can be had pretty cheap: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FEBI-10755-BMW-740iL-4-4-E38-96-02-SAL-BRAKE-DISC-RR-/200996031911?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item2ecc4c0da7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 Pads overhang disc by about 10mm, I've not yet decided whether to mod them or just keep an eye and perhaps replace them more frequently than usual. I'm happy to do that, it's not like they're mega bucks. For me now, I have easy maintenance that doesn't involving crawling underneath...well not for the fronts anyway! Vehicle parts database lists these discs as being 298 diameter, but I was in a rush so didn't think to actually measure them. Phil has suggested looking at Salisbury rears and I'll have a look later. Those BM disc's look possible, I'll look into that later. I've decided I'll be making new hubs for her anyway, I don't like just how far out of true everything runs, and because I can! If the bolt pitch is different then that'll be no problem, just what the hole is in the middle. Something to do when it's cold and wet outside! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Hole in the centre is 75mm, LR is ~101, so could be opened out on a lathe as you seem pretty handy with them... Full specs here: http://bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Detail.aspx?ApplicationIDMaster=270436 Technical drawings for each: http://bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Detail_Image.aspx?Code=62457911-1476-4c47-a29d-8b06fce1a314 http://bremboaftermarket.com/En/Car_Disc_Catalogue/Catalogue_Detail_Image.aspx?Code=3585d4be-16e9-4b7b-a19f-270f7e835a09 Salisbury discs are listed at 298mm as well unfortunately -same size as everything else, except 07 onwards 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 nuts... Could open out the brake disc I suppose...I was hoping for an off the shelf fit, but at least I have the means to do it..might look at that when I do make new hubs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Just had a hard lesson today on my setup!! Standard wheels will not fit!! how did i discover it? well the hard way! Got a puncture this morning on my way to work, stopped at the road side to change it................. jacked up, changed wheel......... the damn thing was jammed up against the caliper................grrrr.................... had to remove a rear wheel, to install it in the front and my standard spare at the rear........... Lesson learnt............ Standard rover wheels will not fit my front disc conversion............................... G 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 oops! Well, we've been up and running for just over a fortnight now and I'm pleased to say things are well. I've tried some hard braking when no-one else is about on my way home from work at midnight..no indication the back end wants to pick up yet. I haven't tried any high speed braking runs yet, no opportunity to. As you'd expect, she's pulling up beautifully straight every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gremlin Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Well done, mine is the same, straight as ever.......... G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 meanwhile i had an interesting back overtaking the front (almost) moment coming into newport the other day at 4am (very icy so exacerbates the problem) can you please take a pic of your brake master EJ? just to confirm i have a similar one? and do you have any biasing valve at all in there?what does your brake "tee" look like too? maybe there is some biasing to be found in there? maybe its as simple as having the extra weight of the hardtop on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Will try to, in the middle of changing a core plug which has necessitated wing off and both manifolds to get at it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discomikey Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 cheers EJ appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 17, 2014 Author Share Posted December 17, 2014 Have took a photo, just need to remember to upload it now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejparrott Posted December 19, 2014 Author Share Posted December 19, 2014 Here you go Mikey... Late Series 3 / early 110 I think, dual line servo. The 109 has the same cylinder. Kettle has the two lines down to the PDWA and then off to the axles, the PDWA got done away with on The 109. The rest of the plumbing is standard Series 3, nothing else added to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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