Buying First Land Rover - Advice please

[Cassiopeia]

Hello,

I have wanted to buy a Land Rover for years and have finally decided to take the plunge. Apart from really likeing them, I don't know much about them and am not particularly knowlegdable about cars, so I would be an easy target for an unscrupulous seller.

I prefer the 90s, but have two children, so presumably the 110 would be a better model for me? I could spend up to about £12k, but would prefer to spend less if possible. I'm really looking for guidance on the the type of spec I should be aiming for, and what to watch out for. Are there years/models/engines/dealers I should avoid? Should I be put off by high mileage?

This would be my main car, is that practicle, or would I still need a more conventional car for everyday use? I know it's a very broad set of questions, but I want to make sure I set off on the right track!

Thanks very much for your help.

Giles

[miketomcat]

The first question is what are you going to use it for ie road/off-road. Are you set on a defender or is there other options. For instance say you want a family, everyday car that's never going off-road then whilst a 110 county station wagon will do a discovery, range rover or freelander will be more comfortable and easier to live with and cheaper.

If your set on a defender then yes it's a 110 county station wagon you need unfortunately you've picked the most expensive to buy.

Rust issues are:

bulkhead top corners and footwells.

The bottom of the B and C pillars.

Chassis outriggers and rear especially the rear cross member.

Door frames all of them mainly at the bottom.

The engine to pick is based on your use and skill. If you want to work on it yourself 200(very old now) or 300tdi are the easiest, bullet proof and non electronic.

If your going to use a garage td5 will be better as they can plug it in.

But the BEST single thing thing you can do (other than being on here) is find and join a local land rover club talk to people who have what your looking for they will be more than willing to help you in your quest.

Mike

[stuck]

Hi Giles,

Welcome to the forum.

My first question is have you ever driven a Defender?

As an every day driver people love & loathe them in equal measure.

Not trying to put you off but if you haven't driven one I'd try to arrange that before spending £12k.

Edit: Oops, posted at the same time as Mike. ^^^ What he said.

[Jocklandjohn]

Welcome! (and to add to what they said above) £12k is a good and very realistic budget and will get you into some decent vehicles. The 90 might do you but from personal experience I can say that a 110 will give much more space for kids and their'stuff'. The fuel consumption on 90's and 110's is about the same so no fuel saving with the smaller one anyway.

You will be well into TD5 territory, and more recent Ford-engined machines with your budget. I'll leave others to comment on the wisdom of either choice. However a basic decision is - do you want to pay the premium demanded for CSW spec (which is County Station Wagon, with 5 doors - 4 side ones and a rear, fancy interior trim and glass all round) or could you make do with a HT (hard top) with only 3 doors - two side doors and a rear, and no side windows.

The latter are usually a lot cheaper, but you can then add side windows yourself - cut out a section of the van side (easy job), bolt in windows with mastic to seal. And for seating there are numerous options that can be retro-fitted. I did that and chose the specifically designed for Land Rover folding rear seats made by Exmoor which bolt in securely, have full seatbelt fittings and comply with all EU regs for child carrying and restraint.

Yes they can be daily drivers. They might be slightly higher in their use of fuel - maybe 30-35mpg but the savings come in overall costs of ownership such as doing your own oil and filter changes - a really easy job - which will save you at least £100 every time you diy it. Add the reasonable cost of insurance and spares over its life and the overall running cost will easily equate with the running costs of a car.

High mileage is not necessarily a problem - if regularly serviced a modern diesel should go anything up to 250,000 miles with ease. Of more importance is a proper LR service record with ALL services logged. Also find out the provenance of the vendor and vehicle. Ones used on the coast (or inland for that matter) might have been used to launch boats and the rear end of the chassis regularly dunked in seawater and be a rust candidate and potentially be a bill waiting to pounce on your wallet.

Have a good read of the forum, get a sense of what people have done with their vehicles, what works for them and might suit you, then ask questions - you'll get sound advice here (as I have had over the years) from a great bunch of (mostly!) unbiased people (many of whom are experts).

And finally - take your time, look around, look at lots of examples and get a 'feel' for whats what. A common misconception about Land Rovers is that they are tough and you can abuse them - and for well-looked after and serviced (and properly driven) vehicles thats mostly true - but what they cannot withstand is neglect - it simply kills them.

I saw an 11 year old LR 110 being sold that looked ghastly - it had a bash in every panel (and the roof and bonnet from people standing on it), the door handles were broken, the mirrors trashed, but it had only 30,000 miles on the clock, had been used by a govt agency and had a service record that was astonishing because in the location it was worked it was Mountain Rescue support, Coastguard support, Fire Brigade support, as well as doing its proper job, and the servicing had to be bang on as lives depended on it. The buyer got a fantastic vehicle. My friend bought a 3 year old 110 with pristine exterior, shiny inside and glittery wheels, with the same mileage. When I checked the transfer box oil for her it was obvious the plug had not been removed in a long time, and when I removed it, virtually nothing came out. It was running with virtually no oil in it, and goodness knows what damage had resulted.

Good luck!

[Mutley]

Buy a Defender for 5K and keep the 7K for maintenance and parts!

[Cassiopeia]

Thank you for replying. That's really useful information; miketomcat, I know that a Range Rover or Discovery would be more comfortable, but I just love the Defenders and I really like that they are more rugged and (presumably) have fewer electronic components and therefore less chance of something electronic going wrong. I will find a local club, that's a good idea, which I hadn't thought of.

Thanks JocklandJonh, it was the Station Wagon that I wanted, but I will look at the HT.

[Nigelw]

If you can, take one for a weekend test, plan a trip in it and drive it.

There are hundreds to choose from, some good, some bad and some that are just nothing more than a rip off.

If you want an electronics free vehicle then look for a 200Tdi/300Tdi, but be warned, newest 200 will be 20yrs old at least and 300s will be 16yrs at newest!!! Your budget sets you firmly into the realms of PUMA territory, that will be the 2.4TDCI Ford engines.

It all comes down to what you want and expect from a vehicle that you say could be your daily driver? I know two guys very well who bought Defenders and within a year had sold them on and almost at a loss as they were just not suitable vehicles for them, but like so many, they aspired to "live the dream" of owning a Defender, just wasn't as great, or as comfortable as they first thought t might have been.

Just be prepared to see loads and walk away from anything that doesn't tick your boxes.

[Anderzander]

......I did that and chose the specifically designed for Land Rover folding rear seats made by Exmoor which bolt in securely, have full seatbelt fittings and comply with all EU regs for child carrying and restraint.

Do you mind if I ask ? ..... Do you still have the fitting instructions for those seats still ?

I bought one second hand to fit in mine and would benefit from a set of instructions - if you could share some that would be brilliant !

[Jocklandjohn]

Do you mind if I ask ? ..... Do you still have the fitting instructions for those seats still ?

I bought one second hand to fit in mine and would benefit from a set of instructions - if you could share some that would be brilliant !

I'm not sure - I might have - I keep most of these bits of paper somewhere and I know I have a box of bits from when I fitted the seat because I also retrimmed all the other seats to match at the same time. I will have a look in a couple of days time (away at the moment) and let you know.

[Anderzander]

Thank you - that would be great.

[Jocklandjohn]

Do you mind if I ask ? ..... Do you still have the fitting instructions for those seats still ?

I bought one second hand to fit in mine and would benefit from a set of instructions - if you could share some that would be brilliant !

Ander - is this the seats you got or is it another sort - I ask because my seat is different from this one.

[Anderzander]

That is my seat !!

Shame some pictures are missing - but it'll be very helpful non the less.

Thank you.

[Jocklandjohn]

That is my seat !!

Shame some pictures are missing - but it'll be very helpful non the less.

Thank you.

Good stuff! Totally different to mine - they must have done a different design at some point. Well made though.

[tacr2man]

You dont say where you live , but if you buy other than a CSW you wont get into London , which may or may not be a requirement ,

They can easily be used as everyday driver , if its what you like to drive , but you wont find that out straight away .

i would suggest having a little car like picanto or matiz as a pop out car , in frosty weather they take a while to get mobile in , and are fuel hungry on short trips , due extra drag from cold . The newer you go the less defender , and more discovery they become.

Original design quality suffers from 110 to defender, and onwards , including complexity of electrical systems etc . With kids got to be a 110 JMHE You can also expect to have to fettle it to your personal preferences, and deal with niggles , eg leaks (some do, but dont have to)

Find a local club is good advice , and try and get a drive , and someone with plenty of experience to come with you on a buy .

[jeremy996]

If you have kids. I'd strongly steer you to a 110 - much more useable space.

You do need to try a few to see if you can live with one long term, as not everyone can. Where do you live? If you are in the East Midlands, I'd be happy to give you a bit of drive time in my 200 Tdi 110. Remember that D1s and D2s are cheaper, more comfortable, quieter and have more toys than the vast majority of Defenders. (They are also electrically more complex, prone to rusting out, less reliable and worth much less on resale).

After my wife demolished her parents fence, she hasn't been keen on driving mine, she describes it as "steering an elephant by it's ears", so is it likely to be driven by the other half? Can they get comfortable? Friends of ours wanted a Defender, but 6'2" husband and 4'11" wife could not get settled so they bought a shiny D2.

Buy any Defender on condition rather than age and mileage, and take a disinterested mechanically minded person with you, so you don't get carried away. Spend £8-10k on the vehicle and the balance on getting it straight and lightly customised for you. (Steps, new front seats, and three point belts for the middle seats were practical essentials for mine).

[dag019]

Buy any Defender on condition rather than age and mileage, and take a disinterested mechanically minded person with you, so you don't get carried away. Spend £8-10k on the vehicle and the balance on getting it straight and lightly customised for you. (Steps, new front seats, and three point belts for the middle seats were practical essentials for mine).

As you say you are not particularly knowledgeable about cars, I would say it would be the most important thing to do when looking at vehicles.

Once you have decided you can live with one and know what model you are looking for go and look at lots of defferant ones with some one who is mechanically knowledgeable and preferable has experience with defenders. Unfortunately there are many unscrupulous sellers and they are very easy vehicles to superficially smarten up to make it look good, but once you look a little deeper the vehicle is actually in very poor condition.

When my friend was looking for a defender I went to see one with him where the chassis had been recently under sealed so looked in very good condition, however on tapping along it with a small hammer to make sure it was structurally sound we found it had been "patched" by gluing a piece of coke can over a rust hole with under-seal. Needless to say at that point we didn't look any further and just walked away.