2strokeand4x4 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 A few weeks ago, I fitted a new winch onto my Defender, sat back and thought what a great job, that was until I used it for the first time, smoke cloud filled the cab, turned it off and could see smoke rising from the handbrake rubber shroud, hand brake was slack, on inspection the cable was broken and the insulation on the handbrake switch wire burnt away. In my infinite wisdom I put the proverbial 2 and 2 together and thought, handbrake had snapped and shorted out the switch. So off I went for a new cable, I fitted in and again was happy, I know you are already thinking ( I bet it did it again ), to my horror, same thing happened again. Winch is wired direct + and - from battery with 16mm cable. By using google I came across a similar problem and they said it was a poor ground on either engine or chassis or both and that truck then uses the handbrake cable as ground. I can see the logic, but when the winch has its own direct supply from the battery how could this be the problem. I have checked all ground connections, cleaned and also run another 16mm cable from - on battery to the engine/gearbox and linked to the chassis, but I don't have the nuts to try it Am I barking up the right or wrong tree. Any help would be really appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Sounds like you have checked all the normal stuff and with a new engine to battery earth I'd give it a try , maybe disconnect the handbrake cable to be double sure . Have you had any other electric problems lately ? cheers Steveb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 You have a dedicated ground from the winch motor casing back to the battery yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Can only really be the battery negative, so as above, where is the winch negative connected to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi, Ive run a 16mm cable from the battery negative directly to the winch cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Where's it connected to the winch/which winch is it? Erm, 16mm? Square (area) or diameter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 i'd bet you that the earth between your engine and chassis or chassis to battery has failed. now bear with me... i know your winch is earthed directly to your battery... but is your alternator? with your alt running at max output to keep up with winch draw id bet that with a bad earth it would melt the handbrake cable quite nicely.... i put a earth from the gearbox bellhousing bolts to the chassis and from the chassis to the battery when i rewired my 200tdi conversion.... works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Hi Bowie69 Negative lead 16mm from battery direct to the body of winch ( Superwinch Talon 12.5 ) as per their installation guide Hi qwakers I have fitted new ground connections to engine/gearbox and to chassis but Im after re-assurance before I try again, but after all the comments, I think I should be ok, I will nervously try later in the week as in my haste to disconnect everything I left the pendant hanging on a tree ( it has been collected ) so as soon as I have tried I will report back ( good or bad ) thanks to all, your help is both valuable and appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 as a example my 8500 Husky is wired like this. 12v power from dedicated winch battery +ve terminal to input of a isolator switch, from output side of isloator to switching solenoid pack [Albright unit] then out to the winch motor connections, Earth is from winch motor body/bumper then from bumper to battery -ve terminal, not given any problems since fitting a few years ago. the engine to chassis earth cable has been upgraded & vehicle battery to gearbox is thicker than original factory fitted cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Cheers westernI have plenty of added ground connections, but I will add another ground connection from the winch body stud to one of the bumper bolts, can't have enough I suppose, live connection from battery is through an isolator.Friday will be attempt No3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Ok, it's update time I couldn't wait until Friday, so at dinner I popped out to pick up the hand pendant, the problem has vanished, nothing heating up, smelling, just the winch working as it should. I should have had more confidence, but I've learned something, so not a complete waste. It may even help someone else. So thanks for all the help and advice, as I've already said it's much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
western Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 that's good news for you, the winch & LR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Cheers Western, A bit of a head scratcher, but that's the good thing about these type of forums, people always have time to assist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Glad to hear you got your problem fixed But to back track a little to a point Bowie made... He asked if your cable is 16mm square, or 16mm in diameter. There is a huge difference. If it's 16mm square that's really too small and will surely cause a lot of resistance/heat if your having to use your winch hard. If it's 16mm diameter then that's more like it. So long as it's good quality multi-strand. 16mm diameter.. http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/extra-flexible-tinned-copper-pvc-battery-cable-70mm-485a.html 16mm square.. http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/extra-flexible-tinned-copper-pvc-batterywelding-cable-16mm-110a.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyoldgit Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'd still double check everything TBH as I can't imagine some friendly gremlin has fixed it for you You might find the problem arises again due to it being an intermittent fault. As an aside and more than likely unconnected with this particular issue I've read of several instances of the negative battery terminal that have been found loose causing all sorts of intermittent issues.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi, Cable is 16mm (2) ,double insulated, so will take plenty of amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi, Cable is 16mm (2) ,double insulated, so will take plenty of amps. No. It will not. If you look at the links I posted you will find that good quality 16mm squared will only take a continuous 110A. Nowhere near enough for a winch.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 You'd be looking at 50mm^2 minimum for a winch like that I'd have thought. Or maybe 35mm^2, haven't done the maths. http://www.superwinch.com/p/talon-12-5-sr-%E2%80%93-12-500-lbs-12v This page suggests up to 530A current draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 According to the installation instructions 2AWG wire is required, which roughly equates to 35mm^2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 We have a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 If it were me I'd be using this.. http://kojaycat.co.uk/epages/950000457.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950000457/Categories/Ocean_Flex_Battery_Cable/%2250mm%20tinned%20battery%20cable%22 Do not skimp on the cable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2strokeand4x4 Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm a little confused, as it's the same size cable ( although double insulated ) as was supplied with the winch, I will contact Superwinch Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speed Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 May I ask who supplied the winch? I can't believe anyone who knows what they're talking about would supply a winch with 16mm2 cable.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwakers Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 There are 2 ways (actually loads of them includin the swa scale...)of measuring the size of a cable and manufacturers seem to swap between them at will... 1st is cable size and the other is conductor size. If yours is measured as cable size then 16mm2 includes the insulation, so nowhere bear large enough for a winch. However if it's s 16mm2 conductor then that is probably big enough... ( not having google it to check). However the longer the cable is the larger it wants to be. So although 16mm2 conductor is ok for the winch to the solenoid, out of caution I'd go at least double that for the feed and the earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 16mm2 is rated 105A continuous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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