Shackleton Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Spent a good hour trying to coax my new 3.9 Vogue into starting this morning, and then the whole arvo trawling here and the wider net for answers. I went back to the P/O (my uncle) to ask what he knows about the situation. He told me this: The RR will be reluctant but will start - so long as you don't touch the throttle, just put the key in and crank. It'll do that kind of gaining momentum deal until fully running. But if you touch the throttle, game over. It'll give the odd catch most times you try and start it but will never actually run unless you leave it over night and follow correct throttle-less procedure. By times today I did get a good old bang of fuel if I'd been standing on the throttle and then got out of the car so presumably it's flooding. This is not something I've be able to find on the net. Does it sound familiar to anyone, is it a known foible? It's a '91 3.9 EFI (presumably hot wire) George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missingsid Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Can't answer your question, but when I had just bought my V8 Disco 3 I picked my daughter up from school. As I was early I turned th engine off, girl arrived with Pals in tow showing them our new car. I turned the key and hit the gas to give a good V8 start (showing off) and it cought and stalled, four times this happened. Final tome I left my foot off the gas completely and it started just fine. Kids ripped my girl to bits about carp car,I guessed that the throttle was burning all the fuel before it had more fuel to keep running? Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I would guess at a pinhole leak in the fuel system allowing drain back to the tank, so runs too lean until the system is purged. The blow back could be because there is enough fuel vapour going through the engine unburnt to condense in the exhaust until the engine fires, which detonates the fuel in the exhaust. A very small leak will allow air in when the system is depressurised, but not allow fuel out under pressure. This is the main cause when Tdis are hard to start, usually in the injector spill return system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Could also be a leaking injector, meaning you don't get film fuel pressure at the rail, then the rest is as snagger suggests.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 That's a great start lads thanks, I never would have thought of that. So in the hope I don't have a pin hole in a fuel line, that could be a bitch to find, I'll start by investigating the injector seals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 When I say leaking injector, I mean it is leaking while switch off, into the cylinder most likely, easy test though, pull the rail compleete with injectors and turn on the fuel pump a few times and see which is dribbling, does mean removing the plenum though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Does the ECU go into "flood clear" mode (zero fuel injected) when you floor the pedal? I know some vehicles do. That would explain no start on full throttle. As for the original problem, if fuel was leaking out you'd have to have a hell of a leak - the pressure regulator regulates the return to tank, so unless the fuel pump running flat out still couldn't keep up with the leak it would build pressure, it would just likely drop at high engine loads - starting would be unlikely to be affected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Gosh I'm trying to even remember if there's an ECU on a Hotwire car!? It's that long since I took the 3.9 out of my other classic that the details are forgotten. I'll be tackling trailering the Vogue tomorrow, here's hoping it starts and I'll hopefully get some time to do a little investigating in the eve. I'll report back with any findings. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Yes there is an ECU Under drivers seat on hard dash, passenger footwell on softdash. No flood clear on the hotwire ECU, or so I have been told in the past -certainly never worked for me to get a flooded engine going! Megasq.... oh never mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'd probably vote ignition amplifier as a 1st port of call on anything with one fitted, especially when the symptoms get gradually worse over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige90 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I had a similar cold starting issue on an old Mitsubishi Galant Turbo, any touch of the throttle meant removing the four screws holding the top of the single point injection plenum and mopping a pool of petrol up ! Massively over fueling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Yes there is an ECU Ok ok I remember now Drove (and trailered) it today, it took about 10 seconds for me to remember I was supposed to have bought my D2 as a runabout between RR's. I'm in love. Anyway didn't get a chance to do any proper testing but what I learned is that it starts willingly from hot or cold so long as the throttle is virgin. In fact it was on the button this morning. The only other clue I have now is that with anything other than light throttle there's a hesitation - like a tiny splutter/miss when acceleration is asked for. This is ringing bells with me now but I can't quite remember? Thinking of doing a full ignition revamp FF, just for peace of mind. How did you sort it Nige? George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Ok ok I remember now Drove (and trailered) it today, it took about 10 seconds for me to remember I was supposed to have bought my D2 as a runabout between RR's. I'm in love. Anyway didn't get a chance to do any proper testing but what I learned is that it starts willingly from hot or cold so long as the throttle is virgin. In fact it was on the button this morning. The only other clue I have now is that with anything other than light throttle there's a hesitation - like a tiny splutter/miss when acceleration is asked for. This is ringing bells with me now but I can't quite remember? Thinking of doing a full ignition revamp FF, just for peace of mind. How did you sort it Nige? George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagger Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Ok ok I remember now Drove (and trailered) it today, it took about 10 seconds for me to remember I was supposed to have bought my D2 as a runabout between RR's. I'm in love. Anyway didn't get a chance to do any proper testing but what I learned is that it starts willingly from hot or cold so long as the throttle is virgin. In fact it was on the button this morning. The only other clue I have now is that with anything other than light throttle there's a hesitation - like a tiny splutter/miss when acceleration is asked for. This is ringing bells with me now but I can't quite remember? Thinking of doing a full ignition revamp FF, just for peace of mind. How did you sort it Nige? George Sounds all the more like air being sucked into the fuel system. Such leaks are hard to find as they are so small they don't let fuel out. Just be methodical - check each metal union for wear on olives and for tightness, check fuel lines for splits, chafing or loose fit over barbed fittings. Check the fuel filter's o-rings are in good order and that there is only one o-ring in each position (I had once accidentally installed the new o-ring in the top casing without removing the old one, with similar results). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Cool, will do. I'm going to get into tackling the sills this week and will use the fuelling prob as break-time light relief. So bear with me, I'll report back as soon as I've found anything to make sure the solution is known Thanks chaps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 If it's behaving odd about throttle you can check the throttle position sensor, the Lucas system is sensitive to this (needs to be adjusted just right) and the design means the wires split & fray for a pastime. Full info on the hotwire is in the technical archive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teabag Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 If it's behaving odd about throttle you can check the throttle position sensor, the Lucas system is sensitive to this (needs to be adjusted just right) and the design means the wires split & fray for a pastime. Full info on the hotwire is in the technical archive.3.9s throttle position sensor is preset there's no adjustments. I'm sorry but perhaps as u are unable to help u should give up in this thread... ie. "flood clear" mode...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowie69 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Well I just googled that to double check, and you most definitely can adjust Hotwire TPS.Perhaps if all you can do is spray incorrect information about then you should give up on this thread... i.e. "flood clear" mode... On the final page of the Hotwire Diagnostics download in our own tech archive it talks about how the TPS must be adjusted to between 0.29 and 0.36v when closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Ok enough of that, I'm off to download and start the slow process of getting back in the know on petrol RR's Thanks (everyone) for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 This may help; https://github.com/colinbourassa/rovergauge Free software but you need to make up a lead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyw Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 This may help; https://github.com/colinbourassa/rovergauge Free software but you need to make up a lead I downloaded this and made my own loom. The connector is NLA, but it's possible to bodge custom build something to suit. A very worthwhile tool that costs very little. You can't do a whole lot with it, but it's what you can see with it that is most useful, hence a valuable diagnostic tool. All error codes can be read, so if you have an iffy sensor somewhere this will certainly make finding it easier. Edit to add that I found a huge amount of knowledge on the 14CUX on TVR forums, all the way to custom mapping the Lucas ECU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 3, 2016 Author Share Posted February 3, 2016 ... and have a windows based machine ? Thanks task, will def look into that, probably when all else fails ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
task Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 ... and have a windows based machine Thanks task, will def look into that, probably when all else fails There's a .deb and also source so you can compile it yourself on Linux, I'm sure it could be made to work on an Apple Laptop too if that's your perversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 4, 2016 Author Share Posted February 4, 2016 Yes I'm one of the deviants. It's the aluminium body, I'm a sucker for those Thanks btw Mickey, I didn't see your post before my last reply. Surely the connector can be got somewhere no? George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shackleton Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Not convinced I've gotten away lightly yet but I've found the root of the dodgyish idle thats for sure. Could this be the cause of the starting issue too? The air bypass valve has been abused. I was [gently] wiggling the wiring plug to remove it so I could remove/check the ABV, when the whole ABV started to wiggle too. It snapped off! Have a look below, it was being held on by a mere blip of good metal, as evidenced by the tarnish/dirt on 90% of the break that was obviously letting air in. You can see the shiny piece that is fresh metal where I snapped it. The valve itself was gunked solid so no way it was operating anyway. I see them for £10 on ebay, are these ok? The tie wrap tight on the body suggests someone knew something wasn't right, just not quite what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.