Fixing up a series 2a

[Gregved]

Hi guys I'm a new member to the forum and to land rovers in general ?

Hope I can pick the more experienced minds for some advice. My dad has a series 2a swb which has been sitting in back garden rotting away. My plans for the next year are to get it back on the road, but not back to the original state as straight off the line. I'm looking for it to look like an original but with a more modern running gear/engine for ease and comfort.

Im thinking of buying a disco 300tdi as a donor and use that for the engine/gearbox, power steering, etc so it's all set up for an easier more economical drive. I've read up sum people have used the 200tdi (taken turbo off,which is not I wanna do as I'd rather the extra power of a turbo) also a defender engine but there more $$$.

I also have a mate selling a series 3 which I cud pick up for cheap, but has a petrol engine which I'm not into unless it's the v8 ?. Are the series 3 interchangeable with the series 2a and Could I also use the series 3 for parts like brakes, baulkhead, chassis, diff etc as It would save me $$$ in the long run in doing so.

I'd appreciate some advice as I've looked into the forum looking for answers and bit of a direction to go into. And looking forward to send some photos once it gets underway.

Many thanks greg

[Cornish Rattler]

Hi Greg

I am also new to the forum and old to Landy's and yes if you are not to fussed about it being miss matched with using s11a / s111 parts then yes you can as most stuff is inter changeable.

my last s11a swb which I fully restored had 11" brakes on the front which worked well using a disco 200tdi and it was great fun.

Graham

[Tanuki]

Before you start building a "bitsa", read up on the IVA/SVA rules ! You need to retain a certain proportion of the original vehicle's components if you want to retain the original identity (and the original registration, and any possible associated Vehicle Excise Duty exemption).

[David Sparkes]

In this context I think the term 'bitsa' refers to the use of parts from the Discovery, rather than parts from the S3, many of which are directly interchangeable.

Without being too dogmatic, I'd say you will get away with the engine change.

People do add power steering, but not ex Disco, for reasons I don't know about. I suggest you should leave that until the vehicle is back on the road.

Some people do change the gearbox and transfer box to raise the gearing so they can take advantage of the more powerful engine, but I understand it's not a trivial task.

Don't even think of changing to the Disco coil sprung axles, even if the idea of disc brakes seems attractive.

Walk before you run.

Good Luck

[ejparrott]

You don't need PAS on an 88

[FridgeFreezer]

You don't need PAS on an 88

You don't need an TDI, servo brakes or a heater either, and yet here we all are...

I'd say it depends on the state of both the S2, the S3 and your available time and money / what you really want to end up with. I'll ignore IVA/SVA issues as that depends on your decision of which way to go.

If you're got one or more tatty-but-reasonable (and fairly complete / original) Series these days they're worth keeping original even if they need work. The Defender is dead, values are sky-high, they're only getting more collectable, and frankly if you want a comfier more powerful more economical easier to drive Series you are better off selling the Series to a collector/restorer and buying a reasonable Defender or Disco/RR that won't require a huge amount of work to make it what you want.

If the Series is/are beyond saving then you're only really borrowing parts to cobble together a hybrid, which these days is fraught with legalities so you are unlikely to benefit from, for example, the tax-exempt ID of the S2.

[ejparrott]

True, I suppose, bu the steering is very light on my 88 and there isn't any need for PAS. The TDi does make it much more affordable to run though, the servo makes it easier to stop when you've got dodgy knees, and as for the ehater....I don' have mine on much anyway!

[Gregved]

Thanks for the reply guys, appreciate it. I'm going to buy the series 3 as a donor and work from there, and see if it's worth the hassle of the putting the modern stuff in, and look into the IVA/SVA rules too, didn't think of them, good call ?

Yeah I totally under stand what your saying fridge freezer about if I'm going through the the hassle of putting 300tdi engine etc etc in a series I mase well go and buy a defender, but the series 2a I have is me dads old one from young and we're going to do it up as a father son type of thing so it's a little project, plus gives me the chance to learn mechanics and get into the Land Rover scene! ? But I will take your advice and keep my eye out and buy a half decent 300tdi defender when i come back from OZ as a run around, if anyone knows of any?

Many thanks Greg

[Cornish Rattler]

I found the heater worked better with a tdi in ?

Graham

[Bowie69]

Even better with a V8

[Cornish Rattler]

Thanks for the reply guys, appreciate it. I'm going to buy the series 3 as a donor and work from there, and see if it's worth the hassle of the putting the modern stuff in, and look into the IVA/SVA rules too, didn't think of them, good call

Yeah I totally under stand what your saying fridge freezer about if I'm going through the the hassle of putting 300tdi engine etc etc in a series I mase well go and buy a defender, but the series 2a I have is me dads old one from young and we're going to do it up as a father son type of thing so it's a little project, plus gives me the chance to learn mechanics and get into the Land Rover scene! But I will take your advice and keep my eye out and buy a half decent 300tdi defender when i come back from OZ as a run around, if anyone knows of any

Many thanks Greg

If I was you I would fit a 200tdi instead just as good as a 300tdi and slightly easier to work on aswell and there is still plenty about, if the petrol engine in the project vehicle we are about to start is not up to it we might consider converting it as I really enjoyed doing the conversion on my last one and running it aswell

[daslandroverman]

Weighing the options these days, the 300 is a better engine.

Easier to work on, more parts availability and more refined.

They've got a few known flaws, but the fixes are easily implemented.

Given the choice the 300 wins.

[ejparrott]

300 requires chassis mods, 200 doesn't, well not for the disco variant anyway

[Cornish Rattler]

Yeah I have often wondered if the bolt holes on a 300 where the mounts are fitted to a 200 are fitted are threaded I know they are on one side but can't remamber which side,, it would be good if they are all threaded as I would fit one in mine ?

[daslandroverman]

The holes are all in the block, you need to relocate the oil filter though.

It's not beyond the wit of man to manage it I can assure you of that.

[Cornish Rattler]

The holes are all in the block, you need to relocate the oil filter though.

It's not beyond the wit of man to manage it I can assure you of that.

That's right I forgot about the oil filter, Mmmm something to think about then

[Chicken Drumstick]

You don't need PAS on an 88

That depends. If the steering is knackered already, then it can be heavy. And sorting it properly might cost as much as PAS does.

Running 205's at high pressure and road tread is also not the same as running large off road MT's at low psi in terms of steering effort.

And off road PAS vs non-PAS is a MASSIVE difference. So much so it's not even comparable.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Weighing the options these days, the 300 is a better engine.

Easier to work on, more parts availability and more refined.

They've got a few known flaws, but the fixes are easily implemented.

Given the choice the 300 wins.

A 300Tdi offers no advantages over a 200Tdi. To a greater extent they are the same engine, with the same power, torque and mpg. They are also the same size and weight.

In fact the biggest thing about the 300Tdi is it was designed to be more cost effective than the 200 for Land Rover on a commercial level. And maybe slightly more refined, although not enough difference to tell by ear in person.

I's also love to know how a 300 is easier to work and what parts you can get for it that you can't get for a 200.

[Chicken Drumstick]

Hi guys I'm a new member to the forum and to land rovers in general

Hope I can pick the more experienced minds for some advice. My dad has a series 2a swb which has been sitting in back garden rotting away. My plans for the next year are to get it back on the road, but not back to the original state as straight off the line. I'm looking for it to look like an original but with a more modern running gear/engine for ease and comfort.

Im thinking of buying a disco 300tdi as a donor and use that for the engine/gearbox, power steering, etc so it's all set up for an easier more economical drive. I've read up sum people have used the 200tdi (taken turbo off,which is not I wanna do as I'd rather the extra power of a turbo) also a defender engine but there more $$$.

I also have a mate selling a series 3 which I cud pick up for cheap, but has a petrol engine which I'm not into unless it's the v8 . Are the series 3 interchangeable with the series 2a and Could I also use the series 3 for parts like brakes, baulkhead, chassis, diff etc as It would save me $$$ in the long run in doing so.

I'd appreciate some advice as I've looked into the forum looking for answers and bit of a direction to go into. And looking forward to send some photos once it gets underway.

Many thanks greg

There are a lot of things to consider here.

But a 300Tdi isn't a straight swap into a Series. So doing this makes it a much bigger project from the off.

A 200Tdi does essentially "bolt in" as a direct replacement. However actually getting it fully plumbed in and wired, so that it's actually running, is quite a lot of work. And you will need to fabricate things to do this. It's not a case of buy a kit that comes in a big box and simply assemble it.

As for the Land Rovers.....

The first thing is to check the chassis and see if it is ok or savable. Rust is an issue, and a major one.

If the chassis is fine, then I'd advise simply get it running first and see how it goes and what needs doing to it.

If it needs a new chassis, then you will essentially need to build the vehicle from scratch. And have to fit every major component to it. Doing mods on the way can make sense. But remember it WILL be a long road. And will require fabrication and customisation to finish it.

As for engines.

The 2.25 petrol is perfectly fine. It's not speedy, but more than up to the task of getting about. And surprisingly capable off road. They are also typically smooth and refined. The only real negative is they do guzzle fuel at quite a rate. 15-20mpg is realistic. But could be lower. Knackered carbs and ignition systems are normally the cause of poor running.

The 2.5 petrol is essentially the same engine and makes only slightly more power. But could be a nice upgrade if you are wanting to keep it mostly original. And a pretty easy fit, as it is mostly a bolt it in engine swap. Only really needing to altered the throttle pedal or rod assembly.

The 2.25 diesel. It's noisy and slower than the petrol and not all that much better on fuel. But again they are perfectly capable engines. The 2.5NAD makes only a couple of HP more and won't give you much of a power gain.

Other engine swaps. The 2.5TD, cheap and not really a bad engine. But will require work to fit. And not really any cheaper than a Tdi these days.

200tdi is probably the best in terms of performance vs mpg vs ease of fitment. But as said, it will require a fair amount of work to get it running. However, depending on how many miles you intend to do in it, the mpg difference might not be important vs a 2.25 petrol.

Remember stock gearing won't make a Tdi Series (or V8 one) any faster in terms of cruising speeds. The difference is you'll have more acceleration to those speeds and better ability to maintain the speeds.

You could look at changing the gearing (lots of ways), but that is more money and more mods.

I see no point in all at fitting a 200Di (a tdi minus the turbo), unless you live in a country where it is a legal requirement.

[Bowie69]

Are 200TDI heads now easily available? I was under the impression that the supply had pretty much dried up...

[Chicken Drumstick]

Are 200TDI heads now easily available? I was under the impression that the supply had pretty much dried up...

Honestly no idea. But replacing a head isn't exactly a service item. And I'm sure there are plenty of used ones available if you really needed one.

And to be fair, I'm sure that some parts might not be available, or as easily. But by and large you can still easily run and maintain them with nothing more than a couple of clicks online to get the parts you need, delivered to your door.

[Bowie69]

They were talking about 'parts', not service items.

[daslandroverman]

I was going to bring that one up.

Easier to work on?

Timing belts, water pumps, starter motors, alternators.

Common service items that are a lot easier to work with on a 300 than a 200.

Not having a water channel running through the timing chest is also an advance in design to my mind, along with a single multi V belt driving all the ancillaries.

As I've already mentioned they've got a few known foibles (timing belt pulley misalignmentn, leaking P gasket, heater takeoff pipe wearing through on the water pump pulley and a bit of sensitivity to bleeding the water system properly.

The first 3 are easily sorted with readily available updates, whilst the engine sits low enough in a Series motor that a full radiator gives it a good head of water which makes them a lot less sensitive to airlocks and bleeding the system.

I think it's fairly obvious which side of the fence I'm on.

[Snagger]

200 heads are not available from LR, 300 are. But you can still get 200 heads second hand or from remanufacturers like Turner Engineering.

The 300 is a bit smoother and quieter, but it's greatest improvements are the crank driven oil pump (main brgs still lubricated should you break the timing belt, limiting damage typically to just the push rods) and the fact that you can remove the timing belt without the water pump, saving draining down (it's no bad thing to periodically replace the coolant from scratch, though, and belt changes are as good an interval as any).

300 heads do warp more easily, then suffering gas erosion, but as long as the cooling system is in good order, that shouldn't happen.

So, it really comes down to ease and price. The 300 is more work and more common, so is cheaper.

[ejparrott]

That's right I forgot about the oil filter, Mmmm something to think about then

On a 90/110 you can fabricate a new engine mount that will still pickup on the chassis mount for a TDi, but wraps around the oil filter. You can't do it on a Series because the chassis mount comes all the way out to meet the block almost, straight through where the oil filter is.