yedaiwi Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Hi Guys, I live in Dubai and we can't do without this remarkable invention called: A/C Strangely enough, defenders of all sorts are imported in Dubai without rear A/C!! So while the knees of the driver are cooled to freezing temperatures, the poor rear passengers are sweating their backs off!! I have looked around and could not find a proper thread about rear A/C systems fitted on a Defender 90/110. I was thinking about installing a disco rear A/C system on my Defender. Any thoughts or useful links? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 it would be easier and probably just as cheap to fit a remote unit , google Red dot corporation , click on products, and then look in pdf aftermarket catalogue , probably back wall units . These are the manufacturer that US Mil use in Humvee, APC,s etc . I have a rooftop unit on my 110 and that handled 45C in OZ . HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 it would be easier and probably just as cheap to fit a remote unit , google Red dot corporation , click on products, and then look in pdf aftermarket catalogue , probably back wall units . These are the manufacturer that US Mil use in Humvee, APC,s etc . I have a rooftop unit on my 110 and that handled 45C in OZ . HTSH Could you spare any information about the installation of the roof-top unit? Plumbing to compressor pump, condensor, general positioning and air ducting etc? It's something I've been looking into for my 110 when I get to that stage, since the standard LR aircon is a bit pants and I don't want to fit a Puma dash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMc Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 it would be easier and probably just as cheap to fit a remote unit , google Red dot corporation , click on products, and then look in pdf aftermarket catalogue , probably back wall units . These are the manufacturer that US Mil use in Humvee, APC,s etc . I have a rooftop unit on my 110 and that handled 45C in OZ . HTSH Red Dot are the way to go - http://www.rdac.com/products/off-the-shelf-hvac They have a dealer in UAE - Refrigerated Transport Systems Mr. Farook Cooper Alramool Rashidiya 221 1st St. Dubai, United Arab Emirates Phone: +971 04-2859158 Fax: +971 04-2857545 Email: aftermarket@reddotcorp.com . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 28, 2011 Share Posted May 28, 2011 Yes, it was in particular the R-6100 Rooftop model that I was looking into as an option for my 110, along with the R-2000 Headliner model. Which one comes down to whether there is sufficient headroom to allow for a 7" protrusion from the roof, if not then it would have to be the rooftop one...which would add 7.5" to the height of the vehicle. I'd rather have the air-con mounted high and the heater mounted low to improve thermal efficiency. The only things that confuse me about the Red Dot units are the installation issues, hopefully tacr2man can provide some insight as above. The R6100 includes the condenser and evaporator incorporated in the unit, working on both ram-air principle (airflow over the roof) and with a supplementary fan for stationary operation, removing the need for a separate condenser on the front of the car. I assume they use an engine-driven compressor still, which means running refrigerant pipes from the unit to the engine bay and back. The best route for these I presume would probably be under the floorboards and up either the B or C pillars and through the roof to the unit? I would have thought that due to the high pressures the extended pipe runs (over a normal A/C setup) would not be an issue, but I'm not an expert so prepared to be proven wrong! It's worth noting that the R-2000 headliner-mount model only has an evaporator (being mounted inside the car of course) so would need a condenser on the front/top of the vehicle as per standard A/C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmeanie Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I'd look at an auxiliary fan first. You can find them where they simply move air about the cabin forcing cooler air to the back so creating a better mix or even ones that duct from one part of the car to another. Then have a good AC tech go over the original system to make sure everything is up to snuff. Red Dot are nice but also fiendishly expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi, I have the 9727, Chosen for being totally self contained, it has its condensor rad in front of unit with booster fan. Not in front of veh rad, from my experience most 4wd cant drive in soft sand in high temp with aircon on as veh overheats . It also allows you to have donaldson air filtration unit , as I have done. This allows you to have fresh air,(not recirc) when in dusty conditions , eg following convoy, or in bulldust, with the advantage that this pressurises interior keeping dust out. It is very easy to fit , cut hole in roof , using template supplied. you need to fit reinforcement ribs . You run the two pipes and 12v feed to unit. I routed the pipes thru top of drivers wing just to outside of dash vent, up side of windscreen, along roof rack to rear of unit (rubber hoses) . You need a decent size compressor as it can demand quite a bit on full power. HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 You can see unit and pipes going up drivers side of windscreen, one donaldson is for engine the other is for aircon The unit is not being used at time picture was being taken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerboy_y2k Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 south african defenders were fitted with rear air con, don't know if the parts are still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retroanaconda Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hi, I have the 9727, Chosen for being totally self contained, it has its condensor rad in front of unit with booster fan. Not in front of veh rad, from my experience most 4wd cant drive in soft sand in high temp with aircon on as veh overheats . It also allows you to have donaldson air filtration unit , as I have done. This allows you to have fresh air,(not recirc) when in dusty conditions , eg following convoy, or in bulldust, with the advantage that this pressurises interior keeping dust out. It is very easy to fit , cut hole in roof , using template supplied. you need to fit reinforcement ribs . You run the two pipes and 12v feed to unit. I routed the pipes thru top of drivers wing just to outside of dash vent, up side of windscreen, along roof rack to rear of unit (rubber hoses) . You need a decent size compressor as it can demand quite a bit on full power. HTSH Thanks for that info, a great help. I am looking at the R-6100 model myself as it's a bit more slimline than the 9727, and a bit more stream-lined looking. I also read in the installation manual for both models that they had to be mounted horizontal to aid drainage of condensate, though I see yours is mounted on the front sloping part of the roof and presumably without issue. I also would prefer the refrigerant pipes routed internally and out of sight if possible, so hopefully I will be able to achieve that in the B or C pillars, even if it means running one up one side and one down the other. The main concern with these roof-mounted units is the amount they protrude vertically, I don't particularly want to ruin the (in my opinion) rather good lines of a Defender with a big ugly box on the top unless I have to (I don't plan on having a roof rack fitted permanently). The main advantage of these roof-top units is that they don't require a front-mounted condenser, but I would imagine a rear interior mounted unit (i.e.. one mounted on the inside of the roof, above the 2nd row seats etc.) would also be viable if I could mount the condenser on the roof. Since they always seem to have fans perhaps it wouldn't be an issue to have it mounted horizontally. It's all just ideas at the moment anyway, and this sort of thing can always be added easily later if provisions for it are made during the vehicle build so that is probably what will happen. I hope the info in the thread was useful to the OP too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 How about making your own? I was thinking about this recently while in Spain enjoying air conditioned Freelander-iness, and thinking that AC is one thing my next 90 must have. Fit the standard pump, fit the condenser in front of the radiator as per standard Defender and then run pipes to your chosen blower/evaporator site. Options include: passenger footwell as per standard Td5, possible alternative in-dash location (subject to being able to find an evaporator to fit...), in the rear roof area, under the rear seat (110 only), in a boxed in rear wheelbox (in front of the LHS wheel, though in my mind's eye I have already located the battery there), in a box under the rear body or, my personal favorite subject to space, under the center seat panel above the gearbox. Evaporators are available in a variety of different shapes and sizes so finding or making something to fit in most spaces should be possible with a little thought/ingenuity. IMHO adding stuff to the roof is asking for trouble. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Dont forget when you site the evap that you ideally need a fresh air supply, so need to consider fumes induction. The defender is particularly difficult to site aircon in the normal area (ie dash) as Landrovers attempts at a decent system seem to prove. Pity they did away with the tropical roof option, as it was very effective fmhe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Twig Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The Snatch LandRovers have their aircon units mounted in one of the side lockers I believe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 south african defenders were fitted with rear air con, don't know if the parts are still available. The parts are certainly still available, as until the end of local production here, all the Defender a/c kit was sourced from specialist companies like Dunair, who still supply the automotive manufacturers here. Compressors were and are standard units, sized accordingly. Evaporators were pretty standard too, only the moulding for the cabin being unique. Condensors likewise are made usually by the radiator/heat exchanger companies, like Silverton. The Defender factory fit was always the notorious knee freezer at the front. Full length units were always an afttermarket item, often fitted at the dealer. These were roof mounted and used a standard minibus type roof trunking with the evaporator inside. The trunking was about the same cross section as the roof consoles supplied by Devon 4x4 and others, but running the full length of the roof, right to the rear door. They would simply cut standard units to length and then cut the air vents to suit the seating layout, much like an airliner has. All components were considerably uprated from the factory fit, so they are very effective and actually work to cool the whole vehicle. All you need is money :-) Any aircon specialist that fits similar items in minibusses, anywhere in the world, should be able to supply. It would not be worth importing from here, unless there are custom mouldings for the evaporators around. Much neater then the external roof mount units. You might ask these people, who do specialise in such fitments : Siuth African custom aircon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBMUD Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Dont forget when you site the evap that you ideally need a fresh air supply, so need to consider fumes induction. The defender is particularly difficult to site aircon in the normal area (ie dash) as Landrovers attempts at a decent system seem to prove. Pity they did away with the tropical roof option, as it was very effective fmhe The system I have designed in my head will take air from inside the Landrover (on the assumption that outside air is readily available through bulkhead vent flaps and open windows) as I will assume that, once it has been running for a spell, outside air is warmer than inside air so keeping already cool inside air cool is easier than trying to cool warm outside air - if that makes sense... Of course, keeping the cabin pressurized with cooled outside air may help prevent hot air coming in from the engine/gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 The system I have designed in my head will take air from inside the Landrover (on the assumption that outside air is readily available through bulkhead vent flaps and open windows) as I will assume that, once it has been running for a spell, outside air is warner than inside air so keeping inside air cool is easier than trying to cool outside air - if that makes sense... Of course, keeping the cabin pressurized with cooled outside air may help prevent hot air coming in from the engine/gearbox. Most of the early car a/c units were recirculating types like you describe and worked well for all the reasons you say. However, in a hot climate, they do have drawbacks. After parking in the sun for 10 minutes or more, the inside air can be really hot, 50C or more. The recirculating type doesn't like that a lot and struggles. The trick was to drive with the windows open for 10 mins or so, to get the hot air out. A full flow fresh air type is a lot better, as it displaces the hot air with cool, right from start up. The standard Defender type fitted here up until the end of TD5 production is a recirculating (fug stirrer) type. Not bad, but it does need, as you say, vents and heater inlet open, at least to begin with. The aftermarket custom fits use the fresh air from the heater inlet to provide air into the evaporator trunking. Heater has to be off, of course :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yedaiwi Posted June 3, 2011 Author Share Posted June 3, 2011 Thank you guys for the true LR spirit shown by everyone. In fact, I have two defender 90s. One is TD5 and the 2nd is V8 NAS. I have contacted RedDot when I bought my TD5 and requested the R-2000. The dealer here in Dubai suggsted that I install a floor-mount unit which I did (photos attached). It sits nicely in place of the middle front seat facing backwards. I found it a space-waster. Hence, this thread for the purpose of fitting the V8. I am very interested in the South African fitments as Brian described. The problem is that air con specialists here are not so savvy. They are trained on a specific product and they just install and maintain that product line ONLY! No creativity ... just easy money. I have a SA friend at work who can source them from SA during one of his trips back home. If this doesn't work, I will follow Brian suggestion of doing it on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winn Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Check out http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/ http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/ud-140-under-dash-evaporator-unit-1967-1972-chevy-90.php works under the dash, almost the same dimensions as the factory underdash unit, but only 300 bucks! I mounted http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/ud-110-under-dash-ac-only-evaporator-unit-86.php in the back to the back of the firewall ( i have a TD5 90) Ordered condenser, two driers, all the fittings and hoses (including the tee pieces to supply the two units). Compressor out of the junkyard (discovery II) buddy loaned me a hose crimping tool, a few trips to the local home improvement store to make mounting brackets for the condenser, and I have a dual A/C system for under 800 dollars US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yedaiwi Posted April 15, 2012 Author Share Posted April 15, 2012 Hi winn I am interested to know how did you install the back unit as you say "back of the firewall". I understand the firewall is the bulkhead. You know as they say: a picture worth a thousand wirds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosbeldia Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 There is a perfect fittment for the Defender, the unit that comes in the Nissan Urvan made in Mexico. It costs around /USD 150 here in Colombia, fittment being around additional USD 100. That unit is perfect, going just to the edge of the rear door including the furniture..... the A17 compressor present in the TD5 (same element from Toyota HDJ100) can easily handle this additional A/C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosbeldia Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 This is a generic unit installed in Argentina, a friend of mine that made Argentina - USA used it and it really did a good job. It's a shame the unit takes some space from the rear door. Nissan unit really freezes the inside of 110, I've been in level 4 armored 300 TDi with 35ºC in the outside getting really freezed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosbeldia Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 I don't know if this photo can help, but this is how the unit is fixed. Off course this is a really ugly and big one, but it's the idea... Sorry, the photo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantg Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Check out http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/ http://www.nostalgic...72-chevy-90.php works under the dash, almost the same dimensions as the factory underdash unit, but only 300 bucks! I mounted http://www.nostalgic...tor-unit-86.php in the back to the back of the firewall ( i have a TD5 90) Ordered condenser, two driers, all the fittings and hoses (including the tee pieces to supply the two units). Compressor out of the junkyard (discovery II) buddy loaned me a hose crimping tool, a few trips to the local home improvement store to make mounting brackets for the condenser, and I have a dual A/C system for under 800 dollars US. Dear winn, could you please provide us with a photo of the evaporator unit as fitted under the dashboard of your Defender? Thanks in advance Take care Pantelis Giamarellos LAND ROVER CLUB OF GREECE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tacr2man Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 That rear roof mount is a a underdash unit bolted upto roof , you can get them pretty cheap ,and they perform about same as LR standard unit eg like these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-UNDER-DASH-AC-EVAPORATOR-UNDERDASH-A-C-AIR-CONDITIONER-ADD-UNIT-/120957295899?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D290750368557%26ps%3D54 They are a recirc type only . The box one in the other post is a generic cab unit quite often used in plant or trucks ,or in rear of bus type vehicles , they can have some fresh air capability dependent on model , YOu can also get flat mount rooftop condensors that help avoid putting in front of engine rad , these are usually a lot slimmer than the combined type that i have and mentioned in previous posts . It si quite feasable to use a couple of the units like these as long as you have sufficient condensor and pump capacity , you should be able to get the specs on sanden , or airforce, or RedDot websites . They usually have tech email query service , to help sell their products . HTSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 In 1998 I built my own! I just used bits from a scrap yard. It had a Range Rover Condenser mounted horizontally over the sloping bit of the roof with the original fans underneath. At speed you got sufficient ram air flow due to the slope of the roof that the fans didn't run. The pump was a Range rover one and the evaporator was mounted on the inside of the roof behind my head. The evap came from a Ford of some sort. I fitted barn door flaps to the evap to direct airflow plus a length of 4" bore flexible tubing which blew air in to the cab area. It was sufficiently good that on a hot day, I could get ice forming on the inside of the windscreen! The circulation of the cold air wasn't brilliant as the front seats tended to be too warm while the back sub-zero. It really needed some sort of diffuser. I had to buy a new drier and orifice and plumbed it such that I could reverse the flow to heat as well as cool. I learned a lot about AC in the process - sufficient that I never added AC to another vehicle! I did build one for my workshop using a big mains motor to drive a RR compressor which worked well for several years. If I were doing it again, I would fit the evaporator inside the heater box then add recirculation as described in another of my threads. Then add a second small evap in the rear with a snail fan blowing cold air forward from the rear. I bought my own set of fill gauges and a tank of refrigerant. I built a vacuum pump using another RR AC compressor to vac the system down before filling. All in, it must have cost me at least £50! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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