Tom 200tdi Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 was thinking about fitting a new diff to my defender probly just rear axle to start with but just wanted to no whats the best sort of diff to fitt air lockers would probly be best but was also wondering what, diffs like ashcroft limited slip diff atb are like if there any good for off roading it would save alot of money if a slip diff would be up to the job many thanks .Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky tango Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 there no right or wrong way the ls type will lock if your stuck and free up when it senses your not, some other auto lockers lock up any time they sense big power and not necessarily any wheel slip, i myself have switchable lockers as i've both been told and can see first hand when using them. In tight spaces in the mud its nice to switch one or the other axle on or off to either create sliding to aid you in getting out of places unscathed, or ( and this is what sold the switchable to me ) to switch them off as on a bank of mud blah blah getting severely stuck looking at fast approaching trees etc as you slide around with your axles locked i can turn them off and seem to gain a bit of control by not having all my points of contact to the ground spinning simultaneously (and you obviously don't have that switch and choice with an atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Today, and probably the forseeable future - Ashcroft Locker. The End Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree, at the moment the Ascroft locker is the best design and the best value. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggles Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Duno, for a bomb proof air locker don't think you can beat a Mcnamara, tho limited distribution over here, and i don't think the guy was ever flavour of the month, but for build quality and reliability his gear is second to none, arb's lockers are ok, but its a hell of a company lot of publicity and back up, tho of late price rise and the quality of the parts (in my opinion) has come down, Ashcroft's air lockers seem to be the way to go at the mo ie, they are cheaper than arb's, build quality is very good, and in the UK problems arre quickly sorted, tho if you are going further afield, expedition, overland etc, you may want to look at a locker that you can sorce parts quickly, but at the mo as has been said if its for a uk challenge truck, greenlaner, or struggling to get out of tesco's, prob ashcroft's is the way to go, and Dave put's up with you asking silly question's, well he seems to with the ones ive asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 if its just general offroading like a few p&p's and a bit of greenlaneing i wouldnt bother with lockers,buy yourself a pair of 4 pin diffs which for a pair would probably cost about as much as 1 locker,they are bullet proof,i started out with these running standard shafts/ cv's and never had a problem or a drivetrain breakage. if you are wanting to do a lot of offroading and can justify the cost then lockers all the way and the ashcroft is definatly worth everypenny, i wouldnt bother with lsd/atb diffs unless your aiming at comp safari etc as soon as a wheel loses contact with the ground they will work as a open diff although you can get a some benefit from them useing left foot brakeing to add load but its more hassle than its worth,just my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Today, and probably the forseeable future - Ashcroft Locker. The End Nige What he said ^^ I had ARBs in the Defender (and loved them) now Ashcrofts in the Range, and they seem to be a slightly better design with less chance of leaks. Performancewise I don't think there's a difference, on or off as needed, nothing more to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will4x4 Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Had ARB's in mine for almost 4 years. Have done over 35k road miles, a dozen big challenges, and over 40 play days.. Still absolutely perfect and all i do is change the oil in the axle when i can remember, which is probably every 6k miles. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Will Your probably lucky , also at 4 years they may be the older (and better air system IMHO ) RD56 and not RD128, but today, just look at the price difference betwen an ARB and a Ashlocker - and the Ashcroft seems to have ironed out all the issues that the ARBs sometimes have. I too like you have ARBs (with 4.75 KAM CW&Ps) and Moi-Pegged and I bought the ARBs as at the time they were all there was really / best, but today with the ashcroft locker I would buy them over an ARB any day. I have had numerous plastic cage breakages, and air leaks from seals worn out (vs air leaks for no seeming reason ) - they have done me well, but when they break (again) being so tired / price of repairs being daft - may just pop an ashlocker in Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I've had ARB's for 4.5 year (front) and 5.5 years (rear) of winch challenge competitions and never had any leaks or problems They were built in to the diffs by Ashcroft's which probably helped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 One of the determinants of seal life in ARBs is the air pressure. Many compressors, including ARB ones are just set too high and it tries to extrude the O ring seal. I found that when my compressor was spitting out about 110psi, the seals lasted about a year. Reduce it with an in-line regulator and they never failed again. They only needed about 60psi to operate reliably. I do wonder if this is one of the reasons that for some people they last a lifetime and others a matter of months! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPendrey Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This weekend we were out with someone who had an Ashcroft ATB locker in the rear axle of his Disco... on a slippery rocky climb he just cruised up at a senslble no-nonsense speed. I had to take a decent run up to clear the steps in it. He swears by it, and I could see why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Being picky( with my Anorak having an outing) The ATB is not a Locker, its a torque sensing stylee LSD (Limited slip diff) whilst significantly cheaper than a "True Locker" it does not have the capabity of it, and is in many ways more suited to different applications either where a locker isn't needed (just wnat more grip) or racing (you do NOT want a locker !) as such ATB / LSDs should not be confused with a out and out Locker I will now go and arrange my rivets collection in size order Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zardos Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Having said I had no problems, I sent it to Ashcroft's for some other work and a general once over and pinion seal and they just phoned me to say the cage in the ARB was broken (it did not affect the operation though) So £11 to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco1tdi Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 It'll be me being referred to, by SPendry.... I've got an Ashcroft ATB in the back of my Disco, and although it's early days, I'm very pleased with it. I realise that they do have their limitations, but as a fit and forget item, that significantly improves traction, I can't fault it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Not unusual I think they heat and age harden. The air seals wear either on RD56 due (as Si says) being over PSI'd or oil contanination cuasing hardening wear or age again. The RD128s have (again IMHO) a inferior Air supply system to the earlier RD56s, and failures on air more common again than RD56s. The ashcroft locker doesn't have the plastic cage which whilst cheap to replace = full strip and reassembly and I think as does steve a superior air in and out system However my RD56 have been given some serious abuse over the years and have served me well, clean oil is a must for any diff, but esp any locker /LSD but I still think the 56 is a better unit than the 128, and the prices seem just to go up monthly The other thing that annoys the hell out of me is the "ARB only" type issue for things like Olives and O Rings as they made them special sizes unique to them, fair and all that but the prices are horrdedous for what is a simple O ring ! We have just done for a customer on demand a pair of Long Nose Casings with RD138 (110 ) ARBs for his off road truck, bear in mind the 138s can be bought 2nd hand for not a lot, and its a minimal amount of work to get them into a long nose casing - however the way it is done is a "Bit of a - no a HUGE Bodgeroo" but it can be done, he has a pair of fully rebuilt ARB locking diffs in casings with CW&Ps all ready to fit into a axle for less than he could have bought 1 x ARB base unit ! Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 FWIW Ashcrofts don't make a Sals locker (yet) so won't fit pre '02 110/130's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danebrewer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Seems to me to be ashcroft all the way in terms of air lockers, but consider then that you need to buy the compressor, and all the gubbins, it gets quite expensive when you might onlt benefit from it a few times. plus when green laning, how many of us ctually ever get one wheel copletely off the gorund? the lanes round where I am are just a bit slippy, so then I rebuild my 90, I think I'm goig to stick a Quaife ATB diff in as there should, in my understanding be much less/no feedback on the road than a detroit or kaiser locker (plus you maintain 4wd on the road vs 3wd going round cornersand it would help a bit when slithering up ruts and slippy muddy slopes. for hardcore offroading then sure go air lockers, but for most people, I'd think an ATB diff would be fine.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid_From_Hell Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 ^^^^^ Er A Quaife ATB Helical Geared LSD is £100 MORE than a Ashcroft Locker, so the £100 towards a Air Comp @ £125 = nearly the same ! LSDs and Lockers are VERY Different in terms of what they do how they do it and what the application is for Nige Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibex94 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It all comes down to how much you want to spend fthe amount effort to install it for the amount of use you will give it. I went the Truetrac route and know alot of others who find them good.. Steve at Crown Diffs is really helpfull and will happily discuss your needs and provide suggestions and all the advice on installation. Google Crown Diffs and you will find the website - the most comprehensive site out there dedicated to Diffs and axle internals. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonr Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 On the compressor side of things - for a while I had no compressor and just used my spare tyre! Pump it up to 65psi and it's good for dozens (probably over 50) lock/unlock cycles. I just used one of those little fabric covered hoses that come with bicycle pumps connected to nylon hose with a hose clip then into a Y connector and in to the solenoid valves. It must have cost at least £5 for the fittings! Pump it up occasionally at the garage and it's good to go! Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco1tdi Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Danebrewer - Ashcroft make own brand Air Lockers and ATB's. Their ATB's (when they're in stock) are about 1/2 the price of a Quaife. Detroit also make an ATB, the TrueTrac. It's about 1/2 way between the Ashcroft and Quaife, in terms of cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danebrewer Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 ^^^^^ Er A Quaife ATB Helical Geared LSD is £100 MORE than a Ashcroft Locker, so the £100 towards a Air Comp @ £125 = nearly the same ! LSDs and Lockers are VERY Different in terms of what they do how they do it and what the application is for Nige I know they're different I obviously didn't make the distinction in my original post, I was making more of a comparison between the locking diffs like the Truetrac and Kaiser and the ATB diffs like the Quaife Danebrewer - Ashcroft make own brand Air Lockers and ATB's. Their ATB's (when they're in stock) are about 1/2 the price of a Quaife. Detroit also make an ATB, the TrueTrac. It's about 1/2 way between the Ashcroft and Quaife, in terms of cost. Yeah, I've seen them in their website, but the Quaife uses more of the helical gears that perform the sem- locking/torque biasing action so are supposed to be smoother in their operation, that's the only reason I might choose one over the other, seeing as most trucks spend most of their time on the road I'd think, on-road performance, for me at least is pretty important, also, not wanting to make 26 years of vague steering and worn bits any worse! plus I don't currently have the requirement for a full locker, if I come across a truck with one in and I can make a good comparison, then I might change my mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 i know its not the real world but it is something visual to compare open v lsd v locker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S2nDDvKHoA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19MART82 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 to be honest applying a little left foot braking with the lsd + boat to add some resistence may have kept him moveing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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