Gazzar Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I believe it's possible to change them Insitu, one guy who used post here said he's done it. Went by the name of Rip Van winkle, possibly. It was tricky work. Use genuine parts and have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, Gazzar said: I believe it's possible to change them Insitu, one guy who used post here said he's done it. Went by the name of Rip Van winkle, possibly. It was tricky work. Use genuine parts and have a go. Bet that would be tricky! I'm at this stage now. (pics below) My concern is knowing what looks ok and what doesn't, I guess my broken springs that were in the sump should be easy enough to see, but wondering about my 1st gear issue. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtbarton Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 Those broken springs will be the 1st gear problem, the bit I said about detent balls in the synchro hub was due to confusion between the landy gearbox and more conventional ones. I wouldn't have bothered putting the gearbox top back on at this stage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve b Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 That's a nice English Wheel in the background , not wanting to get side tracked but what have you made with it ? when you strip it make sure you ID each detent spring , I'm pretty sure they differ slightly . I find it easier to stand it vertical on the HB drum and a suitable bar bolted to the pto hole and blocks to support it from tipping . cheers Steve b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, rtbarton said: Those broken springs will be the 1st gear problem, the bit I said about detent balls in the synchro hub was due to confusion between the landy gearbox and more conventional ones. I wouldn't have bothered putting the gearbox top back on at this stage Ahh ok, that's good news then. Thanks. Lol, yeah I put it back on yesterday last thing, not know what I was going to do with it, but ive man'd up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 (edited) 36 minutes ago, steve b said: That's a nice English Wheel in the background , not wanting to get side tracked but what have you made with it ? when you strip it make sure you ID each detent spring , I'm pretty sure they differ slightly . I find it easier to stand it vertical on the HB drum and a suitable bar bolted to the pto hole and blocks to support it from tipping . cheers Steve b Ok thanks for the advice I will do as you've said. Its been a long day so excuse me, but what is the HB drum? (edit, handbrake drum!!) I made the English wheel (not the anvils though), ive run my fingers over a few times...ouch! Still practising with it. Edited March 26, 2018 by sixtwoeight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 The 3rd/4th synchro springs get mashed up once they are loose inside the box. Mine ended up mainly as paste and got into the 1st/2nd ring which has three tiny slider plates and balls. If you split the main case and the bell-housing, you can access the 3rd/4th ring to change it. However to clean and possibly replace the 1st/2nd you have to split the transfer box off and remove the mainshaft nut, lift out the layshaft and then the mainshaft. Then it becomes a bigger job but at least you will then find where the tooth has come from. I have plenty of pics as I did this for the first and only time about ten years ago. Here are a few but forgive me if I've made any errors as it's been a while. The view into the front, looking at the input gear and the 3rd/4th synchro ring. These pull off their shafts, the ring has a bearing carrier in the middle. Comparison of old and new 3rd/4th synchro. Note the missing springs and the almost worn down wear surface (inside) on the old one. The dog teeth are quite worn too. Mainshaft nut at the back of the gearbox. Make or buy a deep castellated socket to undo this and especially to re-tighten afterwards. 1st/2nd synchro with paste in the slidy bits... New one I think... Old and new to show the wear in the dog teeth I don't think that the missing 3rd/4th springs are a showstopper, unless the mashed-up paste from them is the cause of your 1st/2nd selection problem. I would try to sort the missing detent ball but then if you do need to delve deeper, I hope these pics will encourage you to as it's not as daunting as it might seem. More pics available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Peaklander said: The 3rd/4th synchro springs get mashed up once they are loose inside the box. Mine ended up mainly as paste and got into the 1st/2nd ring which has three tiny slider plates and balls. If you split the main case and the bell-housing, you can access the 3rd/4th ring to change it. However to clean and possibly replace the 1st/2nd you have to split the transfer box off and remove the mainshaft nut, lift out the layshaft and then the mainshaft. Then it becomes a bigger job but at least you will then find where the tooth has come from. I have plenty of pics as I did this for the first and only time about ten years ago. Here are a few but forgive me if I've made any errors as it's been a while. The view into the front, looking at the input gear and the 3rd/4th synchro ring. These pull off their shafts, the ring has a bearing carrier in the middle. Comparison of old and new 3rd/4th synchro. Note the missing springs and the almost worn down wear surface (inside) on the old one. The dog teeth are quite worn too. Mainshaft nut at the back of the gearbox. Make or buy a deep castellated socket to undo this and especially to re-tighten afterwards. 1st/2nd synchro with paste in the slidy bits... New one I think... Old and new to show the wear in the dog teeth I don't think that the missing 3rd/4th springs are a showstopper, unless the mashed-up paste from them is the cause of your 1st/2nd selection problem. I would try to sort the missing detent ball but then if you do need to delve deeper, I hope these pics will encourage you to as it's not as daunting as it might seem. More pics available! Thanks for that, so in that case it's pretty much a full strip down. There's was a fair amount of grinding paste in the oil ( there wasn't a great deal of oil in there). Have pmd you as well. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 (edited) Got the pm thanks. The references I used to guide me were the gearbox parts book (search the internet), a great site at http://www.log-rover.co.uk/ and plenty of help on an old forum which has been resurrected at https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/siii-gearbox-overhaul.75646/ I only ever looked at that forum back then. It was @Cornish Rattler who once said “I’ll post pics on the other forum”. He was referring to this one and indeed it was easier to post on here at least back then. That's why I moved over. Edited March 27, 2018 by Peaklander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 27, 2018 Author Share Posted March 27, 2018 Thanks for the extra info, much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigj66 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Some great information and photos there, thanks for sharing. I do like a techy thread 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 Started the strip down today, came across a couple of issues. I made a tool to lock the input shaft to enable me to undo the main shaft nut - what an absolute pig that was to undo. The locking tool worked well but no amount of hitting a chisel would budge the nut ( locking tab was bent back out of the way).... I tried for a long time but it just wasn't happening so I had to use a die grinder, I'm not proud of that but it wasn't coming undone. I also made a castelated tool out of a socket but unless it's an absolute perfect for it just slips off. The springs i found were from the 3/4 th synchro, without the spring it was all sitting wonky so needed attention. Last issue is i can't get the main shaft out of the case. The manual says just tap the shaft out, but that isn't happening. I hadn't removed the large circlip as the manual doesn't say to, and it's there only for the seal/bearing I think. So il try it on a press next time..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 (edited) Locking the main-shaft can be done by selection two gears simultaneously - one of 1 & 2 and one of 3 & 4 by sliding the selectors across by hand. (it's mentioned in the thread I linked to). As for removing the main-shaft, it must be a bit tight in the bearing that it passes though at the back. Can you tap the end with the locknut still in place on the end? It's been a while and I can't remember whether mine was tricky or not. You will need to make some sort of cradle on which to mount the main-shaft on the bench. Otherwise working on it will be hard. Have a look at that log-rover site as there's one shown. I'll post a pic if I can find one... Edited March 28, 2018 by Peaklander typos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 This is the main-shaft rear bearing, with the reverse shaft location on the bottom left and the layshaft to the right. Also a pic of the cradle that I copied from Log Rover.... t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 Thanks again for the info, I had been reading gazza's thread where I think he used an old clutch and angle iron to hold the input shaft, which had stuck in my mind. Hopefully today once I've dropped my daughter at her grans i can get the main shaft out and have a good look. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 I still have that somewhere. I'm redesigning it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 29, 2018 Author Share Posted March 29, 2018 (edited) I used a bar and welded a couple of spanners to it so the spanner locked into the splines - worked well. Anyway, with the mainshaft out - I pressed it out, I have had a look at the gears and would like some advice as to whether I'm correct or not. So the problems that I can see are. 1st gear, small teeth behind the syncro cone look not too good, although my knowledge doesn't tell me what problems this would give. Back of 1st gear - is that a groove for oil?? 1st/2nd syncro broken tooth on inner - tooth found in sump Slighlty burred and raised on edge of inner teeth, by end of screwdriver. 3RD/4TH syncro spring broken causing it to sit all wonky - obviously needs new spring at least, but: Teeth of outer ring seem very worn? And finally are the inner teeth at one end meant to be chamfered, I expect so but? Everything else looked very good, to me at least. Edited March 29, 2018 by sixtwoeight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FridgeFreezer Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 With all those broken bits laying in the sump it's an opportunity to fit one of Nige's (Xcess4x4) magnetic drain plugs while you've got the spanners out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixtwoeight Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 (edited) Yes well worth fiting, although I hope when I've finished replacing parts it will be good for another 10's thousands of miles. Looking at @Peaklander pictures above and comparing to my pics above itdoes indeed look like my 3/4 synchro will need replacing. I'm thinking that the burred and raised edge on the teeth of 1st/2nd synchro will make any sliding very difficult so could be an issue. So I'm thinking I need a new 1st/2nd synchro, new 1st gear and new 3/4 syncro, new seals and gaskets?. Although still appreciate any opinions on my pictures above. Edited March 30, 2018 by sixtwoeight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lo-fi Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I've had a couple in pieces, neither as bad as that. Poor thing has seen some abuse, hasn't it. Rushed changes mostly, by the looks of it. This is a great opportunity to develop a good feel for what's right and what's not, and from what you're saying I reckon you're on the right track. I've seen some issues with after market synchro hubs not being riveted correctly, so go genuine if you can or inspect very carefully before fitting. There was also a thread about reverse popout recently, which turned out to be defective after market parts, but I can't find it right now. The synchro is probably going to be tired anyway, damage aside, so wise to replace. Clean the bearings up thoroughly, give them a light oiling and run round by hand to feel any roughness or wear - might as well change too if you're in there and they're knarley. First dog teeth don't look too hot, no, and possibly the source of your first gear issue. I'd be replacing that. Yep, pretty sure that's an oil groove, not damage. The inner teeth don't look terrible. Very small burrs can be needle filed, but overall its a judgement call as to whether it's more than just the odd burr. The 3/4 inner teeth are nicely chowdered, aren't they. Again, they'll work, but you'd be better off putting something better in if you can. The chamfer does look machined, but I can't say for sure I'm afraid. HTH, and good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 This is the first new, genuine 3rd/4th synchro that I received. It came in a LR box but I returned it because I thought that its condition wasn't what's expected of a new part. However you can see the shape of the unworn teeth and the chamfers are there too . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazzar Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 That's shocking. Who supplied? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 It was Lrseries. If I remember correctly I talked to Dominic there who apologised and said that it was very old gen stock that had been on a shelf for years. I suppose that I could have given it a good clean-up but instead I just asked for a replacement as I was a nervous newbie about the whole job. The earlier pics were of the replacement that they sent with no hassle at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Rattler Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 On 3/27/2018 at 9:12 AM, Peaklander said: Got the pm thanks. The references I used to guide me were the gearbox parts book (search the internet), a great site at http://www.log-rover.co.uk/ and plenty of help on an old forum which has been resurrected at https://www.lrukforums.com/threads/siii-gearbox-overhaul.75646/ I only ever looked at that forum back then. It was @Cornish Rattler who once said “I’ll post pics on the other forum”. He was referring to this one and indeed it was easier to post on here at least back then. That's why I moved over. It was LRUK forums that had the posting pic's problem, I believe the forum has been updated since but since the forum went down last year due to loosing its Domain I haven't visited the site since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted March 31, 2018 Share Posted March 31, 2018 Yes you're right, it was that one but it is back up on another server now - that's how I've got my old thread back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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