De Ranged Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Thank you The can thing is sort of a long term for when I finally lol get around to building my shed, I've made another panel and if it gets cold enough to need some warming at my workshop in town I'll mount them Along the same lines I made a fruit dryer... it worked but was slow, slow enough that some of my apricotes I tried drying got moldy before they had fully dried.... then while I was away at work it fell down and broke the glass.... so I now have an excuse to make it better lol might just add a whole panel worth 3-4 times the heater panel lol also lay it flater so reduce the flow of heat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 Finished stripping my mates little 4K motor..... not the best news, found rust in two of the bores, he's got the block and the head in getting a hone and pressure test So a bit of spare time, I decided to solve the issue of the wind in the allyway slamming my door closed all the time Problem solved With the tools from working on my mates car away I started modifying the little tool stand to have some organization and bit more space when the lights went out lol Turned out a sparky from the power company was installing a new smart power meter in the front unit..... and he discovered that all was not as it seems with our wirering, the place used to be an old pet food plant... there are wires everywhere, there's a fuse in the switchboard thats a foot long! After a bit I worked out the sparky wasn't going to sort this in a hurry so bailed for home to do some more CAD for other projects... been told its all sorted, but it took a good while and another sparky lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 Todays little side project.... finished the upgrades on the tool stand Got a bit more real estate for tools, a couple of can holders for penretrant/brake clean or possibly a beverage and a series of hooks I can hang hammers or large tools off Wait n see how it goes when I put my mates motor back together 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderzander Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 That’s posh ! 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted May 24, 2021 Author Share Posted May 24, 2021 Got some new toys yesterday.... Left hand M6 and M8 taps and dies I'm now able to make the turn buckles that will hold the forge together..... so I'm ordering the fire bricks today. Also got a couple of sets of Casters, enough to do 2 of the Parts trolleys ($29 for four of them 300kg rating... I thought it was worth a punt, I'm plesently surprised at the qaulity might buy some more for other projects) I get the engine parts back tomorrow morning so I'll give the tool stand a turn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted May 28, 2021 Author Share Posted May 28, 2021 Been distracted with the new shed helper.... she is going through that stage where everything is a chew toy except the chew toys we buy her, I've got another couple of weeks before her last Pavo shot then I'll be able to walk her at the shed and she can come down I got down last night and got a bit of machining done.... working to finish a radius cutter for the lathe, One I started ages ago.... I have a cupboard of these sort of half finished projects, there is another large radius cutter that is designed to go into the tool post but its a bigger job to finish This is what i'm working with Now I started this yrs ago when I had just got the lathe so I thought I'd build this on a bearing.... I now suspect this is going to chatter, but there is only one way to know for certain lol.... finish it and try it The bearing is an old Hilux front hub bearing I have lots of these.... the recess under the bearing is a "key pin" to locate into the where the compound slide locates on my lathe I measured up and changed the original plan slightly so I can increase its cut to just over 40mm Dia. This ment I needed to reduce the height.... so lathed the top down, then mounted it in the mill and cut the slot as deep as I felt I could go with out compromising clamping strength.... I made the slot a bit wider as well going to a different carbide tip thats a bit bigger so wanted a bit more meat to hold it. Because I didn't have the height in the clamping slot I decided to cut a dovetail on one side so the tool post should be nice and rigid then the rest is just for the grub screws to clamp and a couple of tap'ed hole for a handle Oh and I had to make the center bolt hole a bit bigger so I could change the center bolt from a cap screw to a dome head cap screw.... not my best work lol didn't have a cutter big enough so I free handed a round hole with a smaller end mill, looks good from this angle lol About to head in and make a post..... not looking forwad to this.... I'm not a fan of cutters under 6mm with the backlash in my bed and tower on the mill drill I find they have a tendicy to build up the slack and "walk" into the work a bit and I need this carbide tip mount nice n tight Hopefully a few successfull pics to follow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Locking the slide out will help on each cut. Then you’ve only got the spring of the cutter to work against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted May 29, 2021 Author Share Posted May 29, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, landroversforever said: Locking the slide out will help on each cut. Then you’ve only got the spring of the cutter to work against. I do lol.... I try my best to lock it down and only run one axis and in only one direction so I'm working against just the one screw against the cut of the cutter I get to the shop and notice a few spots where I didn't wipe the "bed oil" on after yesterdays machining have a slight rust colour...... I knew my coolant was way past change over but.... this was too much, so started on the tank.... was a bit shocked at the amount of gunk, swarf and one odd item that had made it into the tank. On a roll I decided to strip the bed down, clean it and adjust it as best as I can... oiled and reassembled that, replaced a clamp bolt on the tower and adjusted a few other bits I found a piece of steel in my stock that fit (It is unknown stock, but its a very low use tool and a large tip even if its mild it'll last a while) Having done all I could do to improve my chances I setup to do some machining.... decided to do the worst bit first the seat for the tip I took my time, with the 3mm end mill.... the last cut was .2mm more than the previous cut ..... yep lol that little extra caused the end mill to walk a bit harder into the work and instead of being a nice snug fit it has a bit of wobble about .2-.3mm, the carbide has a 5 degree side "seat" on it. I could cut a little deeper and it will snug it in but given the variables in accuracy of the compound slide and the accuracy of my (not so..) qaulity, no name brand, chinese mill drill I think that would be tempting fate lol... I think I'll just cut a little strip of shim steel and use that against the 5 degree of the tip I discovered I don't have any 2.9mm drills for the M3.5 tap so ordered a new one, on a positive note the steel is a free machining of a harder grade, cuts nicely but dosen't take a scribe line very easily.... oh and on an odd note I found a paint stirer in the coolant tank I'm guessing one of my mates might have used the mill while I was away and added oil and lost this mixing it lol no ones owned up as of yet Edited May 29, 2021 by De Ranged Gramma bad is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 Got the chance to do a bit more on the radius cutter, got one side of the tool post machined down in the lathe, then ruff cut the shape with a grinder... then to the mill, I got the top of the post cut Got the other side to do (the one with the dove tail "wedge" ), the bottom and ends ....... The drill bit arrived today so I can now drill the bit holder and tap it.... a bit of luck I'll have it done tomorrow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 Finished the machining on the tool post and got the tip mount bolt sorted With that done I had to try it..... so set it up and discovered I'd measured wrong and the tip height was 0.25mm to high..... so swearing at myself whip the tool post out mount back up in the Mill and skim 0.25mm off the bottom, dovetail has just a slight gap now.... still unhappy with myself I mount it back up in the base and go to check it.... its 0.2mm too low @%$^&.... I track it down to the bearing not running true... so I screw up the adjusting bolt to increase the tension on it and tapping it as I spin it get it seated better (I had done this previously) it still has a tight spot but I suspect that is due to a combination of the stamped washer and the base of the bolt head not being sqaure Wanting to have a play on it I decide a large radius isn't going to notice the slightly too low cutting (I'll shim it up later) and the tight spot in the rotation is in part of the swing I'd not need so I bolt it up I started with some test cuts to see if the bearing would move and cause chatter... starting with a 0.2mm cut, the handle held static and advancing it on the table screw.... I slowly increased the cut to 2mm! no chatter ( a fair bit of resistance on my hand holding the handle from turning tho lol)..... this is way better than I thought the bearing would allow Time to cut a radius the piece of stock is the bit I'm going to cut the Convex (male) roller die for the bead roller (old drill rig drill shaft, some form of med to higher carbon steel) so setup to use the short side of the tool post. The start of this radius has an intermitant due to a weld I'd ground out so started out with a very light 0.2mm cut so I don't swing the cutter too deep due to the lack of cutting resistance in the gap I almost cut the gap right out when I noticed a pattern to its advancement like it was wobbling (my hand swinging the handle was pushing a consistant force.... so I try to cut this sqaure again by locking my hands and lever against the handle to hold it.... bang! The moment I pushed up on the handle it tilted the base that spins on the bearing and dug the tip in too deep and snapped the end of the tip off..... the bearing was loose! I'd used thread locker to lock the center bolt in place After 40 min's of playing with it (with the tool post off so I could track the bolt head) I've come to the conclusion the tension I need on this bolt ( to hold the bearing sqaure and stop movement) is creating more tension on the bolt head than the threads can control I even tried deforming the threads of the bolt (clamped them in the vice) this slowed how fast the bolt walked out but didn't stop it At this piont it was close to freezing, you could feel the frost in the air and I was on my bike lol so I bailed for home I'm going to have to come up with a way of increasing interferance on the threads for more holding..... that one is simple, I'll cut a new larger thread M12 and machine a bolt with a slight interference fit at the treads and I'm going to need some sort of very low profile bearing under the head that isn't simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Is there a way of clamping the bolt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted June 5, 2021 Author Share Posted June 5, 2021 31 minutes ago, landroversforever said: Is there a way of clamping the bolt? hmmmm very good idea that lets me adjust the tension bolt easily and I don't have to solve the bearing fitment.... I might just play with this Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted June 5, 2021 Share Posted June 5, 2021 Thinking some way of cutting up to the thread and a bolt at 90deg to pull it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted June 11, 2021 Author Share Posted June 11, 2021 On 6/6/2021 at 12:03 AM, landroversforever said: Thinking some way of cutting up to the thread and a bolt at 90deg to pull it up? Not pretty.... I don't have slitting saws and I know the odds of cutting a thin slot with a small end mill.... well I'll save my luck for lotto, at least there the money I waste some of it goes to charity lol So 5" grinder and a cutting disk I drilled in from the side and threaded it for a grub screw then cut a length of 1/4" rod to make a push bar. It works a treat, locks the center bolt tight While I was at it I machined the underside of the bolt head... just to make certain it was "true".... I don't think it was out at all... but with it all assembled this time, the bearing is running as true as I can measure with a vernier I had a bit of time spare so cut and started machining the bead roller dies for the bead roller.... I'm at the stage I need to make a spindle to clamp them out away from the chuck...... the down side of this radius cutters design is it has a big body that keeps the tool tip out from the chuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blanco Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 21 hours ago, De Ranged said: So 5" grinder and a cutting disk If it works it can't be knocked 😉, I can hear my late Father chuckling '.... crude can be effective you know...' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted June 13, 2021 Author Share Posted June 13, 2021 On 6/13/2021 at 7:02 AM, Blanco said: If it works it can't be knocked 😉, I can hear my late Father chuckling '.... crude can be effective you know...' Lol that was part of my job in Australia..... you just keep hitting a problem from different angles till you find a solution that works with what is available, I imagine the guys taking over from me are going to hate dealing with what I've had to do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted June 16, 2021 Author Share Posted June 16, 2021 (edited) A wee update on this project (the fairlead) I've changed the curve dia to 30mm (for the "channel" form), been thinking a fair bit about the forming of this.... due to the complex shape, there is going to be alot of movement in the metal (shrinking and stretching) and I don't think it will be possible in one process.... I think it would kink and fold. Reducing the curve dia down to 30mm will reduce the amount of "side wall" that I have to shrink in the press die So I'm thinking I form a channel first with the bead roller, possibly using 2 different female dies and multile pass's. I think there is potential for the flat bar to "walk" to the sides of the round die in the bead roller, this would put a curve into it instead of forming the channel, so if I machine some shoulders onto the female die.... then all I do is apply pressure (up or down into the die) and the shoulders keep me aligned. Catch is as I form the flat into a channel it gets narrower and I might need another die with narrower shoulders After I've got it formed into the channel I'll cut it into the short lengths to be pressed in the press into the final curve..... there is going to be alot of shrinking in the sides of the channel, but I think if build the female die correctly I can form it in one hit I'm almost ready to start using the radius cutter, I've I've cut out the basic shapes for a set of Bead roller dies and the male press die (the female one is going to take abit more work probably building it laminate style) The small one at this end is going to be the male die I've still got to finish the spindle to machine these on.... I cut it down to size (almost) yesterday with a worn carbide tip, this generated enough heat I had to leave it to cool down and shrink before the final cut and thread cutting Edited June 16, 2021 by De Ranged 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 Not much of an update as I've been busy cleaning up the workshop (one job was all the cans for the solar panels 🙄) and working at home to make the boundry german sheperd proof But I haven't forgotten this lol I've finished the spindle and nut.... I've gone for a pin wrench/C spanner on the nut as my hand will be passing under there when I swing the radius cutter.... that leaves me a nice smooth profile so I don't get caught on it as it spins For those that care the thread is a 1.5mm because its nice and fine which will give me plenty of torque to lock the blanks..... (it was what I'd last cut on the lathe and I couldn't be bothered finding the gears to change pitch lol) I'm heading back in to the shed today..... to build a set of 8m wide gates so we can close off a section of the property for the dog. So hopefully I'll get the chance to try this all out "fingers X'd icon" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnoK Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 11 hours ago, De Ranged said: I'm heading back in to the shed today..... to build a set of 8m wide gates so we can close off a section of the property for the dog. How big is the dog?😲 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 2 hours ago, JohnnoK said: How big is the dog?😲 Presumably less than 8m wide or it wouldn’t be able to get out without gates 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 13 hours ago, JohnnoK said: How big is the dog?😲 Lol a lot less than 8m wide, but at 20 weeks she is 20kg.... too be honest I think the 1.6m high fence will only hold her for a couple of months before she can jump it! . But I'm going to setup an invisible fence once I've got this gate done and hopefully that will train her to the boundery Right I did get the bits of the gates that I wanted done... done so got some machine time in on the lathe IT WORKS LOL !!! I did take a pic of the male die roller die as well but due to the crack in my cell phone lense and carp lighting in my shop the pic is too blury to be worth posting... that one I managed to finish cutting Now for what I've learned... small cuts lol there is some movement in the bearing (and I've over tightened the bearing to the point it has a heavy resistance) there is no chatter but if you feed too hard the tip can bite and move the bearing (you can see the results on the tip in the following pics), 0.2mm cut works about right and I can get nice long strings of swarf. I need more options for placement of the handle... if you look closely to the right hand side of that concave cut, there is a little shoulder on the right edge of the cut... as I swing to that side of the cut I'm swinging the handle in towards the chuck and I'd reached the point I wasn't willing to finish the cut.... I'll be able to get this by reversing the blank on the spindle so I can live with this one for a bit My biggest issue is this.... and I didn't clearance the tool enough particuarlly on the concave side of the tool (I still have another 6mm of depth to cut and I'm hitting the side of the work when I swing the tool to the side), on the convex (male die) I only just contacted on the last few pass's I thought I'd get away with pushing it lol the tip of the tool is what it cost me Given how easily the tips of these carbides are going and a worn out comment on the box that I think says "don't use on stainless" I'm guessing these tips might just be ones for alloy, the sticker with the code is long gone... I got them as part of an auction lot lol and I have no other tools that use them.... so I'll keep going on them lol So where I go from here... I'll "grind" a bit of clearance into the concave side of the tool so I can finish the female die roller (I'll tidy it up later on the mill, save me the lost time resetting the tool to the right radius) The male press die is a smaller (spinning) dia so I'll be able to cut that. That leaves me with the last problem and its a perl'er.... the female press die That sucker has been a real head scratcher hmmmm, the radius cutter wont cut it (lol double entendre) so I've thought about laminates, reinforced heat bent tube thats cut to leave the shape etc but I think the option I'm going to go with is mount a couple of bits of 20mm plate to the face plate and using x/y coordinates rough out the curve then mount the die grinder in the tool head and tidy up to match a template..... then slap the two together and pin and weld. I feel this gives me the best option to modify the die later by carving out ramps at either end to guide the stainless "channel" (created by the die rollers) as the male press die pushes down in the center ..... will probably make more sense when I start building it lol Right time to go mount some gates 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 On the tool life… are you getting any vibration or chatter when cutting? That will knock the edges off the tip quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 9 hours ago, landroversforever said: On the tool life… are you getting any vibration or chatter when cutting? That will knock the edges off the tip quicker. Yes your dead right, and I have none that I can see, feel or hear.... for those that haven't done any turning, chatter or vibration will show up as one or more of the following.... you'll see a pattern on the fresh surface (sometimes you'll only see it if the light is right), you'll feel it through the handles of the lathe or the most common you'll hear it generally as a low pitch high ossolation drone lol trust me you can't miss it. As you'd expect as your tip wears your more prone to vibration as the resistance to cutting increases Now in my case the worst of my wear is breaks... you see this as a change in the cutting pattern (it will have this nice shinny matt finish, then it will noticably change to a rougher surface with ridges), you'll feel it as normally a single bounce of the tool (if your in manual feed and sometimes it'll catch a couple of times) Most notibly you will hear it as a "bang" or "crack" You can spot the difference visually on the tool tip (this is getting harder and harder for me to spot lol) Look at the bottom of the above pics at the tip closest... notice the tip has a "face" that runs almost to the bottom of the tip, the change in colour is an indicator, now look at the pic above at the same tip... it has a sharp edge that isn't sqaure. This tells me its a break (this matches to the incedent where I swung in to raised piece of the work as I was roughing off lol. Now if this was normal wear or chatter you get a "rounding" of the cutting edge and the colour change doesn't carry to the bottom of the tooth Landroversforever is right tho..... I know I'm going to be getting some vibration from the bearing (I knew this was going to be an issue when I decided to finish this tool) and to combat this I have that much preload on the bearing lol you'd cringe.... if it was in a wheel I don't think you'd get around the block before it destroyed itself.... but so far I can't see any harmonic patern on the cut surface Here is the two finished Bead Roller Dies and the small one on the end is the start of a male Press Die The vertical lines in the surface are due to cutting with the carbide tip being chipped.... the sharp pionts tend to gouge into the work.... for what I'm doing with these surface condition isn't a concern.... but the next job might be so I put the raduis cutter tool away with a new tip in it for next time The femal Die Roller Die (middle one) is only 28.8mm wide, I've done this so I can test it, I want to see if I can "buckle" the 30 x 3 flat into the gap and locate it that way.... I don't think its going to work but.. its worth a shot, If it doesn't work I'll cut a shoulder 3mm deep on the sides so its 30 wide to fit the flat bar I really wanted to try these out last night, but I needed to broach a keyway into them.... and I needed to build a broaching guide for them, all good easy enough to make one catch is I only had one 10mm endmill in my tooling and it was worn.... it got worse the only blank of steel I could find between 35-40mm (so I"d have a shoulder to catch) was 316 stainless.... I figured I'd give it a shot lol two pass's in (2mm deep) the resistance is getting to the piont I stop..... turn the flood cooling off and find a ridge of stainless that is being melted by the cutter and pushed infront of the cutter lol this is never going to make 14mm deep so next weekend..... bugger lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted July 9, 2021 Author Share Posted July 9, 2021 Nothing exciting for this lot of creations.... I actually went in to finish the bead roller dies because my 10mm end mills had arrived lol that is the one thing I never got too Got in there with the nagging thought that my bike was due an oil change, so I'll do that first.... all good do the DR, then I thought about my trail bike and decided to do that too... this one sits a bit taller than the DR, the oil change was all good but when I decided to do some maintance the cheap chinese bike lifter ( from the surpisingly named "supercheap auto" ) it didn't lift high enough..... at this stage I seriously looked at this with the attitude of I can rebuild it better taller faster than before.... I had a loose plan even down to where I tart it up with some hammerforms and dimple die gussets lol.... then I had a strange thought, a sensable one lol I'm going to use this tool once or twice a yr..... why waste all that time and effort so While the paint was drying on this I decided to sort the parts trolley.... so I could put it away Cut the cage off the bottom (knocking it up the legs) then cut the small casters (that had deformed under the weight lol) and enough leg off to fit some new casters (supposedly 300kg total rating ) welded them on and added some tape hooks and another pen holder for a white pen at each end .... I cut part of the legs because this has a bench it sits under when not in use so it couldn't go any higher Then while I was waiting for the paint to dry on this one I made a Rake lol not really I just welded a handle to one..... I'm clearing up the area where the shed wil go (one day) and I'm raking up and burning the dry weeds from spraying but the rake handle had broken and I was sick of tripping over the bit that was left so this sorts that job lol now i have to get back into using it Oh and just in the forground of the trolley pic.... I ripped up another panell of plywood to make another solar panell for the shed (one day lol) After all this I was looking at my poor shed helper who had refused to go to the toilet on the grass out front of my workshop so I decided to take her home to use the lawn ...... maybe Sunday I finish the dies lol 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
De Ranged Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 Morning all Got myself a new job.... working for a local engineer for 3 days a week lol they wanted full time but in the end were willing to take me at 3 days. Its great, loving the work and I'm getting plenty of time to do my thing I've started into the shed sorting alot of stuff I had stacked up so I've got some space.... currently working my way through old partially done projects Done a bit more testing on the Solar Panels, testing an insulation layer above the cans (sealing off the area under the glass) With the glass on my results are Ambient Temp Cloud/Sun Temp Gain 5-6C Dark cloud +5-6C Light cloud +6-7C Sun (not bright) +7C 7-9C Light cloud +7-8C Suny +10-12C Bright sun +15-20C The rag is in there to seal that side of the box, so I could test if having a insulation layer above the heating tubes was a gain. Again using blocks of steel over the tube ends so I have something to measure the temp of the air with my IR thermometer Interesting results.... yes it does make a difference, but not at the temps I want it to make a difference at.... My goal with these is to heat the shed when the temps are cold <15-16C.... from about +12-16C output, I start to get an average increase in temp but only a few degrees more than the open side. I imagine in summer on the bright hot days it would be a big difference Not really the results I was hoping for lol given the investment in time to make these, but given this is a set and forget option for heating and my workshop will be insulated I've continued on with them (and to clean up all the cans I've collected lol) Based off the testing I've decided not to seal the air above the tubes.... the work involved in cutting a piece of ply to seal (spacing isn't consistant one panel to the next due to glass size), over summer when temps hit mid to late thirtys with harsh sun I'm going to be trapping alot of heat in there, I suspect enough to damage the paint and glue. From a thermal (semi scientific point) the panel that is open will still generate the same BTU's of heat so if I leave them unsealed I should get the same energy of heat just at a lower heat Here are some finished panels And the last of my stockpile of cans, tubed up awaiting glass from my builder mates (from the next shower they remove to renovate😉) Yes I know they arn't pretty but they will be setup ontop of a storage container at the back of my section behind the shed well out of sight lol so the ugly smeared sealent that came from a half dry tube wont be on display I've gotten 5 panels done so far and I have enough tubes to make another two panels (when glass turns up) I'm working on the idea of 3 or 4 panels so I end up with >8m worth of panels 1700mm long.... I should have a nice warm shed to hang around in 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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