New guy new Santana 109

[Keese_21]

Am I in the right room? 
My wife bought a Santana 109. We chickened out on driving at home 1200 miles and had it shipped. That might be one of the best decisions we made recently but I digress. Even though I was sent videos of it running and driving onto the trailer, it wouldn’t start when it got here.

We got it up and running this weekend ( happy Mother’s Day!)And now the real work and questions begin.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Keese_21

[Retroanaconda]

Not quite, I’ve moved it to the Series room for you. Welcome to the forum, whereabouts are you based?

[Keese_21]

Awesome.  Virginia- USA.  
So my first two big questions are control based.  
#1 I cannot find any internet reference for the transfer case pattern. 
the actual knob seems different than the true pattern.   Knob photo below, but the actual pattern seems to just be an “L” 

I have done the pink drawing of what the green knob lever actually seems to do????

#2.  Blue knob under right side seat.  It pulls out or is pushed in.  I have no idea what it is for.   Translated to left or right.   
 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Keese_21

[FridgeFreezer]

Got a photo of the blue knob? Also a piccy of the gearbox/transfer box from underneath and maybe in-cab layout would help as I'm certainly not very familiar with Santanas (others may be?) I think they tended to be "the same but different" to Land Rovers - for example 109's never came with a 5-speed or a 2.5 engine but Santana did.

There's a chance that's the same Santana 5sp gearbox used on some Defenders but the transfer case is a mystery to me.

[Keese_21]

I will get more pics up ASAP and of course get further into tracking things myself (blue knob termination, etc. )

I had hoped these were simple “new dummy” type questions.   I am 99.9% sure it is an LT85 trans,   Its a 6 cylinder 3,5 diesel, unsure of name or code or even engine maker for that matter.  I don’t have a clue about the transfer case.  
 

 

[Snagger]

I suspect the blue knob is for a Power Take Off (PTO) unit, to drive a hydraulic pump or a mechanical shaft to the back of the vehicle for powered machinery.  They often had in/out levers.  Overdrives typically have throw levers like gear sticks.  That said, I’m not familiar with Toro overdrives, and they being Spanish could well be common on Santanas.

[Keese_21]

I’m getting there   

 

 

[Cory]

Great truck!! Congrats and welcome! 

I'm located by Pittsburgh, PA.  Nice to see a truck on the East coast.

[David Sparkes]

For the blue knob, using Google translate ;
'cambio de depósitos'  translates to 'change of deposits'.
'izquierdo o trasero' translates to 'Left or Rear'.
'derecho' translates to 'Right'

How many fuel tanks are there?
In the last picture I see what I think is the fuel filler at the rear of the Right Hand Side, so there is probably a rear tank (in between the main chassis rails).
Is there also one under a front seat?

For the gearbox generally https://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/manual-gearboxes.html might tie in with what you have found; it gives guidance on where to find the gearbox number.

I have a vague recollection that the Santana migrated to a single lever gearchange (away from the three lever Land Rover design). This single lever combined the High Low change into the main gearlever.
Today, I have been unable to verify this.

Heystee Automotive have some information about overdrives fitted to Santanas 'HST SuperDrive - is based on the original Santana GLR120A unit which was designed in the early 1980s in reaction to overdrive problems that occurred with the use of the more powerful 3,4 ltr. 6 cylinder diesel in the 109" Series IV at that time. '.

Regards.

 

[Keese_21]

I don't mean to be unresponsive...  Kids sports every night this week,  work to do etc.

I am figuring it out,  but of course will need to get deeper and more knowledgeable. 

The transfer case does possibly match the green knob,  but I really only find 2 engagements that  "drive. "  I drove the darn thing 30 miles home in low range before I found high range. 

It has twice now "popped" out of high range... I don't know how big of an issue that will be...  for now I am hoping a little clean up and tightening of things and education to minimize  "operator error" will resolve most issues.    

It does have two tanks,  but I still can't see what the blue knob goes to or does,  the tanks have an on dash switch that AT least switches the gauge from tank to tank.   What I believe are orange low fuel lights, seem to function on at least the rear tank.   When I flip the dash switch I do not know if I am truly switching which tank I am running off.   The switch labeling and the sticker I photographed  are labeled similar   D  /  IZ &T on the switch. 

Shifter needed a tear down and reassembly,  trans fluid was awful,  but it is driving smooth at this point.  Belts and filters needed love and I need to get to transfer case and axle fluids,  but it is a good clean ride.   

Cory,  I was born and partially raised Pittsburgh. 

 

[David Sparkes]

10 hours ago, Keese_21 said:

...It does have two tanks,  but I still can't see what the blue knob goes to or does,  ...

OK, In the UK the Series ex-military 2 seater vehicles had two tanks, one under each front seat. This dual tank option was also available to civilian owners, the parts were listed in the normal Parts List, it's just that he Military were the most frequent user group.
There was always a manually controlled valve to switch from one tank to the other. The bracket holding the valve incorporated two switches which ensured the single fuel gauge was connected to the tank in use.

The lever for the valve was either on the side of the gearbox tunnel, (where it became the side of the footwell), or the lever poked through the front of the seat box.

I'm thinking your blue knobbed control might be operating a manual valve

Regards.

[Keese_21]

Thank you for the information- so do you think the knob is a manual override or the only way to switch tanks ?   There is a rocker switch on the instrument cluster that has matching letters and gas jug shapes.   Should the switch do the job or does it only switch the gauge? 

[David Sparkes]

I'd be surprised if there is more than one way to switch the fuel supply line from one tank to the other.
So I'd suggest the Blue knob switches the fuel line, while the dashboard switch controls the gauge connection, and incidentally allows you to see how much fuel is in each tank without interrupting the supply.

I think you will have to get under the vehicle with a torch, or, possibly, remove the seat over the control, then a blanking plate in the top of the seatbox, and get visual access that way.

Regards.

[David Sparkes]

Ah Ha.

Go to https://www.veikl.com/api/download/full/3211.pdf.

This is a free 24MB download of a Parts List in PDF format. It's mainly in Spanish (which I cannot read) but the text listing of each part has the part name in several languages, one of them being English. The manual conforms to the earlier style of LR lists, with a diagram on one page and the text description on the next page.

On PDF page 163 you will see the complete layout of the twin tank arrangement, including the control valve.

I'm counting that find as a win.
It might not contain the answer to the meaning of life, the universe and everything, but it seems it's at least a starter to Land Rover Santana 🙂

Regards.

[Snagger]

The twin tank system on Series Land Rovers used the cradle mounted selector tap as David mentions (diesels had an extra valve for the return line on the same cradle with a mechanical link to the feed valve). They have two plunger switches on the cradle that are pressed by a gusset on the tap handle to connect whichever tank is feeding the fuel to the gauge.  I suspect your dash switch is a cheaper and simpler alternative that Santana chose in place of the LR system, with the tap itself operated by that blue lever.  As David said, lifting the seat base and removing the inspection panel should allow you to take a close look and work it out, but I too would be very surprised if they fitted an electrical and a mechanical valve selection system in parallel.

[Tusko]

Just got a 1989 Santana 2500D. If I understand the manuals, your pink diagram would have 4L at the top left, 4H at the bottom left, and 2H on the bottom right. 
 

I’m having trouble getting 2H to engage, so I’ve driven so far in 4H and 4L. 

[Tusko]

On 6/30/2022 at 6:15 PM, Tusko said:

Just got a 1989 Santana 2500D. If I understand the manuals, your pink diagram would have 4L at the top left, 4H at the bottom left, and 2H on the bottom right. 
 

I’m having trouble getting 2H to engage, so I’ve driven so far in 4H and 4L. 

Just got a 1989 Santana 2500D and I’m also having trouble getting the 2H gearing to work. Did you ever get this sorted? A couple of times I got it to work for a moment, then it disengaged again. Driving in 4H in the meantime. 

[Torch07]

On 5/10/2021 at 9:07 AM, Keese_21 said:

Am I in the right room? 
My wife bought a Santana 109. We chickened out on driving at home 1200 miles and had it shipped. That might be one of the best decisions we made recently but I digress. Even though I was sent videos of it running and driving onto the trailer, it wouldn’t start when it got here.

We got it up and running this weekend ( happy Mother’s Day!)And now the real work and questions begin.

Good day!  Just came across this post. I'm sure you have your answer regarding the blue knob.....but just in case ou don't, here goes. With my truck (a 1987 Land Rover Santana 109, 2.25L diesel, LT85 5-spd gearbox, 5 doors) has the same knob (but in green). It also has two fuel tanks. One is under the passenger seat and accessed by flipping the passenger seat forward and sliding out a tray-like cover. The other is in the rear of the vehicle, hung between the frame and crossmembers.  The knob lets you determine which tank to pull from.  The switch on the dash has three positions (up, middle, and down).  up and down indictae the fuel level in each seperate tank. When the switch is in the middle position, it is has no power and displys nothing.  Good luck, and it's always good to see another Spanish Land Rover on the road....despite what the Solihull enthusiastis will tell you......

[DomO]

Found the post to be really helpful, also have a two tank Santana Land Rover, blue handle in takes fuel from the front tank whilst pulled out takes fuel from the rear tank.  

[Smw5631]

So hello,

 

I have what I still believe to be 1985 Santana 2500 turbo that I bought about a year and half ago. After tooling around town in it for a summer, I put it in with my local diesel mechanic to look over then gone and re wire the interior and exterior lights.  
 

After dealing with some business issues and significant medical issues over the summer, I've recently tried to get the beast back out but I am needing a vacuum pump as well as a power steering pump.  I'm not looking for much more than to pass on a functional yet cool vehicle to my boys, so I'm taking it slow and easy. Yet, I'm ready to move past these hurdles and do some driving.

 

Does anyone have any insights as to what and where I can find parts outside of eccuparts.com?  Needing to get them shipped over to the states. My mechanic is a little bewildered and I'm little help as well.  Much appreciate any advice!

 

Mark

 

[FridgeFreezer]

Santana were assembling vehicles using mostly LR bits and making up the rest with whatever was available locally (so Iveco truck, Fiat, those sorts of parts bins), so although some stuff may be a bit weird it is likely not "special" to that vehicle.

Ultimately a PAS pump is a PAS pump, you could even fit an electric one from a modern car if it proves hard to find one that looks like it will fit. Same with a vacuum pump, I thought a lot of them were driven off the back of the alternator - I guess the US not being anywhere near as big on diesels they're less common but I'd hope a commercial alternator rebuilder or truck/tractor parts shop might recognise the part and have something close.

[Gazzar]

Any photos of the old pumps?

[Shep The Disco]

Yep post up pics of engine bay etc as above .

This will aid us for what you need.

Personally I would be happy to mail you stuff if it can be sourced here but you might find it easier to get the matching parts over that side of the pond...