TCI Land Rovers Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Hi, I’m having problems starting a TD5 engine that I rebuilt. It’s in a 2004 Defender. The engine turns over well and has a new starter motor. All of the injectors click when tested with a Nanocom. No security codes are shown. I believe that the issue is related to the crank sensor date that the ECU gets. With Nanocom and Lynx tools, I’m seeing a cranking RPM of 220-235. I’ve seen online that the TD5 needs a cranking RPM above 300 for the injectors to fire. The engine definitely sounds likes it’s turning over well, with a cranking RPM that is equal to or better than a TD5 Discovery I have that starts well. I’ve tried different crank sensors with and without the NSJ000010 spacer, a different ECU, and a new plug and shielded wiring direct from the sensor to the ECU, with the same 220-235 RPM results. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve200TDi Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 What's the history with the engine? Has it gradually got worse to start or have you just bought it? Can you hear the fuel pump come on when you put the ignition on? Is it quiet or loud? Yes, you're quite right about the crank sensor, if it doesn't work then the engine wont start. Regards Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 How far apart did you take it? Is it timed correctly? I can't remember how the TD5 timing setup works when you're putting it back together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 The truck was used by a construction company, until an array of issues not related to the engine running resulted in it being parked in a junkyard for 6-8 years. I was told that it was started briefly about 3 years ago when in the junkyard. I brought it and did a full restoration and engine rebuild. I did not try starting it prior to the rebuild. The fuel pump comes on, and to me sounds normal. Any chance the flywheel could be a crank signal issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddy Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 Try tow starting it, you should be able to increase rpms sufficiently with a decent wheel speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 I believe that I set the timing correctly, but it is one thing that I will check again. Would the timing off result in an incorrect cranking RPM signal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 7, 2022 Author Share Posted February 7, 2022 I've thought about tow starting it, but it really appears to me that the cranking RPM is higher than what the tools are displaying. The starter is new, with a new large battery, and I tried with a battery booster pack too. There appears to be a discrepancy between the true cranking RPM and what the ECU is showing. If the true engine RPM is higher than what the ECU is operating on, would tow starting damage something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 My first port of call for TD5 starting issues is the injector seals. The copper washer wear or can get damaged when fitting, which allows the fuel pressure to leak into the cylinder instead of getting pressurized as it should. Did you take out the injectors? What exactly did the engine rebuild include? The crank sensor usually works or not, so if you get an rpm signal you can assume it is fine. No harm in swapping it if you can get a known good one to try of course. 200rpm should be enough to start a TD5 if it's in half decent shape. They don't need that much, easy to tow start as well (unless the injector washers are worn!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbekko Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 If you really want to verify the RPM reading, you can always try one of these: https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Photo-Laser-Tachometer-Contact/dp/B001N4QY66 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landroversforever Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 What's the battery condition like? I had a td5 I was looking at that would seemingly crank ok.... but on looking at the voltage while cranking it would dip right off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 8, 2022 Author Share Posted February 8, 2022 The battery is new. I will check the voltage drop when cranking. I tried different crank sensors and got the same results. I appreciate all replies. I have a list of things to try and check, and will report back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 9 hours ago, landroversforever said: What's the battery condition like? I had a td5 I was looking at that would seemingly crank ok.... but on looking at the voltage while cranking it would dip right off. Too low voltage can cause the ECU not to fire the injectors, so the engine can fail to start even if turning over seemingly OK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 I checked the immobilizer, tried with an auxiliary ground to the engine and ECU, and with a booster pack to keep the voltage up when cranking. No success. What voltage is needed to be maintained to fire the injectors? My plan now is to check battery voltage when cranking, check the fuel pressure at the regulator, and the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2010 Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 I would check your getting minimum 4 bar fuel pressure at the regulator , Iv had pump that sound ok , and supply fuel but no where near the fuel pressure required . Generally I believe if the crank sensor is at fault / perm fault the engine light will come on . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 I thought minimum voltage for the ECU was 10V, but probably some margin on that. Fuel pressure shouldn't be a problem for starting, as long as there is fuel flow. The pump injectors of the TD5 will allow it to fire even without the electric fuel supply pump (it will run at limited power though). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2010 Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Tend to disagree there , Iv had a discovery and also my own defender would not fire with a faulty fuel pump . pressure was to low .new pump and fix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Thanks. I'm going to find a gauge and check the fuel pressure at the regulator as I'm running out of ideas. The timing is my primary other idea, but I don't think it's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escape Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 20 hours ago, chris2010 said: Tend to disagree there , Iv had a discovery and also my own defender would not fire with a faulty fuel pump . pressure was to low .new pump and fix I've had several fire up no problem with the electrical pump unplugged. First one by mistake while troubleshooting the fuel system, checking the fuel pump fuse and forgetting to put it back, then a couple more for testing purposes. If the pump is faulty, it's often blocked or restricted internally so the pump injectors can't suck in enough fuel. Same with a clogged fuel filter. So no argument on a bad pump causing starting problems, I just don't think pressure is the problem. TCI, I'd look at the injector washers if you don't find any other obvious faults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TCI Land Rovers Posted February 11, 2022 Author Share Posted February 11, 2022 Thanks. I found a gauge, and the pressure at the temperature sensor on the regulator is around zero. I'll look at that system and see if I can find the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2010 Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 On 2/11/2022 at 2:12 PM, TCI Land Rovers said: Thanks. I found a gauge, and the pressure at the temperature sensor on the regulator is around zero. I'll look at that system and see if I can find the problem. On 2/11/2022 at 2:12 PM, TCI Land Rovers said: Thanks. I found a gauge, and the pressure at the temperature sensor on the regulator is around zero. I'll look at that system and see if I can find the problem. Good news , pull the pump out and see what the filter on the bottom of the pick up is like , chances are your pump has failed . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filbee Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 I fitted a new pump, filter head and regulator to my Td5 when I first got it, and it wouldn't start after I'd fitted everything. It turned out that the non-return valve in the filter head was fitted to the wrong outlet on the filter head! And that was on a brand new, genuine LR filter head... I'm sure if you've had the filter head apart you'll have put it back together correctly, but could be worth a check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transpalette84 Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 And finally, it's the pump? No news from TCI Land Rover ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaklander Posted October 23, 2023 Share Posted October 23, 2023 Try waking him up this way @TCI Land Rovers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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