RV8 engine mount position for a 1987 110

[smallfry]

Or ........ I have got this. It came from a manual Disco 1 facelift, but I have had in in the workshop for 20 years, and I cannot remember if it was a Tdi or a V8. Not doubt someone who is more familiar with Discos will recognise it ?

It bolts onto the bottom of the transfer box and takes the place of the two individual handed mountings. It has the end plates welded at an angle to suit the engine and gearbox.

All you would have to do is weld some crush tubes into your chassis in the required position.

Yours if you want it.

[Retroanaconda]

5 hours ago, Phill S said:

Thanks for that - at least I'm on the right track now.

Just to understand the other option, the 300TDi cross member, I think that's ANR3713? I liberated a pic of one from eBay:

Am I right in thinking that if I were to go that route I would have a whole lot more holes to drill through my chassis? Looks tough though

Yes, that will bolt up and fit. It’s how I had it all mounted in my chassis. You’d need the corresponding 300Tdi gearbox side brackets though (the one that came with it is one of them) and the rubber thingies too. And there may be exhaust clearance issues.

I don’t think extra holes would be needed, it uses a few of the ‘standard’ triangle set that your old mounts used, plus the rearmost pair of the ones used to mount the plain crossmembers that don’t include gearbox mounts, like the one Bowie69 posted.

[Retroanaconda]

Some pics that may be useful. I can get more of the chassis engine mounts tomorrow evening if you want - just shout. Happy to take measurements too.

[Phill S]

13 hours ago, Bowie69 said:

The RRC crossmember may be better for you, it has humps in it either side to allow for the exhaust to tuck up out of the way.

Thanks for that - looks identical to the one from my Disco 1 donor, and understand the whole exhaust thing. At least from other folks accounts written up here! Yet to tackle that whole minefield.

 

9 hours ago, smallfry said:

Yours if you want it

You have my attention! And many thanks for the offer. Definite maybe, let me weigh up the options

 

8 hours ago, Retroanaconda said:

Yes, that will bolt up and fit. It’s how I had it all mounted in my chassis. You’d need the corresponding 300Tdi gearbox side brackets though (the one that came with it is one of them) and the rubber thingies too. And there may be exhaust clearance issues.

Hey - thanks for that little lot, that's really helpful. From the engineering point of view it looks like a nice solution, but I'm very wary about creating a problem downstream with the exhaust.

Think my next step has to be to weigh up the costs of either approach, cross member versus regular brackets. So far I've seen some (what look to me like) crazy prices on brackets...

[dangerous doug]

23 hours ago, Phill S said:

 

 

 

Bellhousing:

 

Ribs all over the place. Looked convincing when the nice man who sold it to me said it was just what I needed. You might be able to see the casting is marked HRC2773. Now, I've no idea what vehicle it's from, but I know of a man who I'm sure does...

 

 

 

Ah, I know what that is! It’s the later R380 v8 without the inspection hatch at the bottom of the bellhousing, it ties in to the aluminium sump.  Should be the same length and if your off-roading it a lot then there won’t be as much carp getting in the clutch…ask me how I know. Aslong as you have the v8 input shaft in the gearbox you’ll be ok. 
 

[Phill S]

1 hour ago, dangerous doug said:

Ah, I know what that is!

I think it's this:

https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/r380-v8-bellhousing/

But pre-drilled for the dust cover

[Phill S]

 Ok - having given the options a bit of a thrashing, I think I come to the conclusion that I revert to plan A, largely driven by exhaust concerns. So let's go back to the starting point of the "correct" brackets:

On 4/30/2022 at 3:53 PM, Retroanaconda said:

use the bolt-on V8 mounts from the parts book 

 

RHS would see me needing ANR4657. Stick that into https://www.lrworkshop.com/parts/ANR4657 and this pic comes up, even got a label on it:

 

Typical price in the order of £110

 

My VIN begins BA, so on the gearbox side it would need one of two items, 90575585, can't find a pic of that. For VIN after TA970050 it would be ANR4650:

Another £100 and I'm not certain would fit my setup...

 

And finally, I would need chassis bracket 90575585 for earlier vehicles, couldn't find a picture of that, or ANR2820 for later:

Didn't do an exhaustive search - loosing the will to live - but I find people asking £80 for that. Probably ex VAT and postage.

These are all new items, but even second hand - well...

 

While ferreting around I find this guy:

https://www.defender2.net/forum/post673055.html

About half way down the page looks like my solution?

 

Looks like this route is going to expensive 😞

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Phill S
Detail!

[Phill S]

On 5/2/2022 at 9:27 PM, smallfry said:

Yours if you want it

Yes please! I'll be up your way early next month and could collect then. Don't know if I'll use it, but will pass on for free to the next guy if I don't. I can see how the crossmember sits, but can't make out how the transmission supports work? Maybe I could bother you for another pic on that? You know how it is, very often it can be hard to work out how to do something until you have it in your hands...

In other news, I have a cunning (budget) plan forming as a get me going measure, more on that when I've checked measurements

Edited May 5, 2022 by Phill S
More questions!

[smallfry]

2 hours ago, Phill S said:

Yes please! I'll be up your way early next month and could collect then. Don't know if I'll use it, but will pass on for free to the next guy if I don't. I can see how the crossmember sits, but can't make out how the transmission supports work? Maybe I could bother you for another pic on that? You know how it is, very often it can be hard to work out how to do something until you have it in your hands...

In other news, I have a cunning (budget) plan forming as a get me going measure, more on that when I've checked measurements

No problem, just let me know when, and if, you are coming. I can be around any time, any day.

I know what you mean about having stuff in your hands, theory and pictures help, but its no substitute.

Will try and do another pic for you, but I have to find a transfer box first thats off a vehicle.

[FridgeFreezer]

On 4/30/2022 at 9:47 PM, smallfry said:

FridgeFreezer has a V8 ambulance fitted an R380, maybe he could shed some light ?  

When I've finished coughing myself to death I may muster up the energy to crawl out to the truck bear with me

[FridgeFreezer]

OK I've found some stuff in the archives...

Which looks to me like someone else said - back of engine mount is flush with the rear web of the spring mount.

That's with an R380 with the regular length bellhousing the same as yours (as you can see in the piccy) which leaves the LT230 + propshafts in their standard position as well as giving you a fairly easy route to use a standard RRC exhaust front section into a standard Defender centre & rear section with the standard square gearbox crossmember. I think the transmission tunnel then becomes standard R380 (300TDi/TD5?)

 

I don't know if this contains any useful info:

 

 

[Phill S]

19 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

When I've finished coughing myself to death I may muster up the energy to crawl out to the truck

Oh dear - that sounds familiar.....

Been busy turning 3 R380 boxes into 1 and sorting out what parts I need to buy in, but will be back on this tomorrow so input very timely, thanks

 

19 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

Which looks to me like someone else said - back of engine mount is flush with the rear web of the spring mount

Yup - that seems to set the datum from which everything else comes together. I'm going to go ahead and get those welded in place

 

19 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

That's with an R380 with the regular length bellhousing the same as yours (as you can see in the piccy)

Yes indeedy...

 

19 hours ago, FridgeFreezer said:

I don't know if this contains any useful info

Certainly does, I'll be taking a good look at that. Thanks for that little lot

 

My next steps then are to get the engine mounts welded in, my emptied out block and boxes back together and supported at the front to double check how far the rear mounts have moved forward. I'll get back on how that worked out shortly...

[FridgeFreezer]

3 hours ago, Phill S said:

Certainly does, I'll be taking a good look at that. Thanks for that little lot

If you need more pics and/or a tape measure waved around I can probably manage it, the ambulance is parked outside the house at the moment.

[Phill S]

Think I'm ok now actually, will put up some pics of what I'm planning to do in a couple of days to see what you guys think of my planned solution...

[Phill S]

Front chassis brackets welded on today....

 

Yeah, I know, But they're not going to fall off are they. Done courtesy of my friend Roger - he's a much better welder than me - I leave that to your imagination.

General detail shots:

 

Should be able to start looking at the rear end tomorrow....

[ThreePointFive]

On 5/4/2022 at 9:50 AM, Phill S said:

 Ok - having given the options a bit of a thrashing, I think I come to the conclusion that I revert to plan A, largely driven by exhaust concerns. So let's go back to the starting point of the "correct" brackets:

 

RHS would see me needing ANR4657. Stick that into https://www.lrworkshop.com/parts/ANR4657 and this pic comes up, even got a label on it:

 

Typical price in the order of £110

 

My VIN begins BA, so on the gearbox side it would need one of two items, 90575585, can't find a pic of that. For VIN after TA970050 it would be ANR4650:

Another £100 and I'm not certain would fit my setup...

 

And finally, I would need chassis bracket 90575585 for earlier vehicles, couldn't find a picture of that, or ANR2820 for later:

Didn't do an exhaustive search - loosing the will to live - but I find people asking £80 for that. Probably ex VAT and postage.

These are all new items, but even second hand - well...

 

While ferreting around I find this guy:

https://www.defender2.net/forum/post673055.html

About half way down the page looks like my solution?

 

Looks like this route is going to expensive 😞

 

I don't know if it helps at all, but those are all the exact brackets (visually at least) as on my 1988 V8 wth LT85.

[Phill S]

10 hours ago, ThreePointFive said:

I don't know if it helps at all, but those are all the exact brackets (visually at least) as on my 1988 V8 wth LT85.

Good to have that confirmation - thanks

[Phill S]

Ok - I've posted a wanted ad:

 

We'll see if anything comes of that first....

[Phill S]

A couple of updates on this. Firstly, with my empty engine, R380 gearbox and transfer box space model in place, I can confirm that...

On 4/30/2022 at 3:53 PM, Retroanaconda said:

standard V8/300Tdi/Td5 seatbox, floor plates, tunnel and props should all more or less fit

One eBay special 300Tdi seatbox etc later...

 

The gearbox sits pretty snug under the front edge of the seatbox though, and with my every expense spared gauge from Lidl...

With the transmission brackets (what I believe to be) correctly aligned the engine is sitting an indicated 1.8 deg tail down using the bulkhead as the vertical datum. Yeah, I know, but I checked the gauge out on the bench and it seems to be surprisingly accurate.

And on that note, I plan to cut down the original brackets from the 2.5 18J NA diesel setup shown in my earlier pics, and weld to 4mm plate to bring them forward to the correct location. They have to be cut down to fit under the front seatbox supports. Here they are rough cut with my paper patterns for the back plates:

 

More on those later, I'll do the final trimming down and fitting up as the rebuilt engine and boxes are going in. For the time being the whole set of mount configuration is looking about right.

Isn't it?

 

 

[Bowie69]

Just to clarify, are you cutting the brackets to level it up, or put more downward rake on the power train?

[Phill S]

Just cutting the brackets back to get engine and boxes sitting correctly fore and aft. If the engine weren't canted up slightly at the front the back of the gearbox would foul the seatbox/tunnel. When the tf box and engine are back together again I'll post some more pics of what I'm describing.

Are you thinking about the front propshaft u/j angles?

[Bowie69]

Essentially, yes, RV8s don't sit level in in land rovers, for that reason.

[Phill S]

6 minutes ago, Bowie69 said:

RV8s don't sit level in in land rovers, for that reason

So would you say it's looking about right, or should it be nose down?

[Bowie69]

Always nose up, 3 degrees sounds familiar, but need someone to confirm....

[Phill S]

I'm probably in the right ballpark then? I've got a little bit of freedom up and down on where I set the transmission chassis mounts, and I jacked the gearbox up as high as I could to give clearance under the seatbox to measure the angle the engine was sitting at in the pics shown above, but the angle the front propshaft will join the front axle looks pretty awful to my eye. But then there's no great weight in the engine and transmission at the moment, and I'll be putting on the lighter front springs from the donor Disco 1 as well. So hopefully it will end up looking a little less worrying...