Wheel spacers - wheel stud/bolt

[Mossberg]

I have a 1993 90 and as it has a 10 spline axle it has thicker drive flanges which unfortunately interfere with the plastic centre cap on the alloy wheels. I am not usually worried about the cosmetic side of things, but I do feel the little black cap poking out through the centre of the wheel doesn't do the boost alloys any favours!

So I decided to get myself some wheel spacers to help with my vanity. Unfortunately these sat on the shelf for a while as they also clashed with the thicker drive flange, but with the slightest of fettling with a file they now sit flush on the wheel.

I decided to trial fit them but one thing caught my attention. The wheel studs in the spacers are in fact just bolts recessed into the spacer and threaded I to a tapped hole so they pass through the spacer and act like a wheel stud.

These bolts were not fitted particularly tightly and my thoughts are that if they unscrew whilst fitting the wheel nuts, on tightening they will be pulled tight up against the back of the spacer which in turn could damage the thread they are screwed into. If the threaded hole in the spacer becomes damaged then, if you end up with a tight wheel nut, is there a risk of the bolt just spinning as wheel nut is undone? One spinning wheel nut and the wheel ain't coming off!!!

So, should I use locktite on these bolts into the aluminium spacer? If I do should I use the blue medium strength locktite or the red "needs heat to undo" type?

Your advice, as always, is greafully received. 

Many thanks. 

Mick

These look similar to my spacers. They are the alloy hubcentric ones (mine are second hand so not sure of actual make).

Edited February 8, 2023 by Mossberg
Image added

[muddy]

I would use medium strength loctite on the spacers 'studs' and on the spacer to hub nuts, knowing how conscientious you are I imagine you will wire brush the alloy wheel studs and nuts and apply a light smear of oil/grease/coppaslip before fitting so I doubt you will get a tight nut to spin the stud/bolt back out the spacer.

[Snagger]

As above.  EAs lock will not only prevent accidental loosening of the studs, but also any damage to the threads by movement of loose studs and corrosion. The force required to move them should greatly exceed the force to undo the nuts.  Alight application of copper grease or anti seize compound to the spacers’ studs should ensure they don’t loosen in the spacer in the future when removing or refitting wheels.

However, my experience of spacers seemed fairly typical and matched warnings from friends about the nuts retaining the spacer to the original wheel studs in the hubs loosening behind the wheel nave, even though torqued to spec.  I would urge you to degrease those nuts and studs and apply some thread lock to those too.

[Mossberg]

Many thanks folks, I appreciate your responses. I will clean the threads and use medium strength locktite for the spacer to hub nuts and also the spacer studs to secure them into the spacer body. 

You are right about me using copper slip on the wheel studs and I will keep doing so.

I haven't fitted them yet as they are not on my insurance yet and it's due at the end of the month so I'll fit them then - then I will have to see if I get on with them. 

[Snagger]

Just to reiterate, the construction of your spacers seems atypical if there are bolt heads at the back, and it would be worth removing them to use a generous amount of high strength thread lock to make sure they never move in the spacer blocks.  I would use the weaker threadlock on the original studs retaining the spacers so the the nuts don’t loosen unintentionally but so that you can still remove them without too much effort for maintenance.

[Mossberg]

Thanks Snagger. I only have the blue (medium) and red (high strength) so i will to invest in some of the low strength suff, which I believe is purple. 

[Phill B]

It happened to me. The bolts stripped the threads in the aluminium and I had a brown pants moment. It was like this when I bought it. Loctite didn't work on the other threads, which weren't in great condition either, so I JB Welded the bolts into the alloy on every bolt. That worked well.
I ended up replacing them for steel spacers eventually though. Load bearing steel into aluminum just didn't sit well with me. 

[Daan]

I would throw these in the bin for a few reasons. I am less worried about the threaded bolt, but more about the nut that holds them onto the hub. This works directly onto aluminium which has a chance of deforming. Where most alloy wheels have a steel insert to combat wear or at least a different shape nut, these clearly don't. If they were steel, that would be acceptable, in aluminium, I think it is not. With the wheel mounted, there is no way of checking the nuts, so if they works loose, your wheel will eventually fall off with the spacer.

Sorry to be negative about this, but I would not run these for this reason.

My opinion.

 

[Snagger]

I had steel spacers on my 109 for a very short time.  The biggest problem was the weight and feel of the steering, which simply won’t be an issue for most with PAS.  They were steel billet spacers for steel wheels, so didn’t have that profiled lip in the centre and had the studs and holes evenly spaced, not offset to one side like most aluminium spacers.  I still had the nuts retaining the spacer to the hub loosen, even with a little thread lock and correct torque set.  I didn’t have concerns over the strength or wear resistance of the steel, but I can see why one would over aluminium spacers.  Alloy wheels use completely different profile nuts and holes for this reason, but aluminium spacers seem to ignore the issue.  🤔

[Mossberg]

To be fair the nuts for seem to be the profile to suit the spacer.

 

 

 

 

[Snagger]

They should be, but so we’re the nuts for my steel spacers.  The wear issue is one I hadn’t previously considered, but is valid.  Look at alloy wheel nuts and you sill see they have parallel sides and a flat head with a freely rotating washer to ensure they don’t drag on or wear the alloy.  That is what should be employed on the spacers, too.

As long as you carry out periodic inspections, ideally at each service, then you should be able to determine if anything is amiss before it jeopardises you, so I wouldn’t fret about it.  But it is something to keep in mind.

[landroversforever]

1 hour ago, Mossberg said:

To be fair the nuts for seem to be the profile to suit the spacer.

The issue isn't the profile. Compared to steel, the Ali is easily mashed out the way so the reason that alloy wheels use a steel insert to take that friction so the ali only sees the compression. 

[Chicken Drumstick]

Do all alloy wheels have steel inserts? I've never really looked, nor noticed. I don't recall them being very obvious on the alloys I do have.

As for spacers. No idea on the terrafirma ones. I have that I bought in 2002/3 that have been used loads including on large 33"Simex tyres. They use a slightly smaller steel wheel type nut. Never had a single nut come loose over many thousands of miles, off roading and trials events.

I have some cheaper (eBay) spacers too which I run only on the front. Must have done a fair few thousand miles on them too now. And they take some abuse off road with wider offset rims and chunky mud terrains. Pretty sure they use something akin to a regular LR steel wheel nut. All of the spacers are alloy and again never had a single nut come loose on these (and change wheels fairly often for different events, terrain and use). And no sign of any deformation of the spacers. Apart from being dirty...

[landroversforever]

18 minutes ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Do all alloy wheels have steel inserts? I've never really looked, nor noticed. I don't recall them being very obvious on the alloys I do have.

As for spacers. No idea on the terrafirma ones. I have that I bought in 2002/3 that have been used loads including on large 33"Simex tyres. They use a slightly smaller steel wheel type nut. Never had a single nut come loose over many thousands of miles, off roading and trials events.

I have some cheaper (eBay) spacers too which I run only on the front. Must have done a fair few thousand miles on them too now. And they take some abuse off road with wider offset rims and chunky mud terrains. Pretty sure they use something akin to a regular LR steel wheel nut. All of the spacers are alloy and again never had a single nut come loose on these (and change wheels fairly often for different events, terrain and use). And no sign of any deformation of the spacers. Apart from being dirty...

Not all, but then they will usually have a washer type thing on the wheelbolt instead.

[Mossberg]

My truck has limited milage at 3k per year, and I have never got anywhere near that. I hope to do much more this year, but I am happy to remove the wheels and inspect them on a regular basis. If I ain't happy with them they can come off.

[sean f]

16 hours ago, landroversforever said:

Not all, but then they will usually have a washer type thing on the wheelbolt instead.

From what I have seen most alloy wheels are designed to use a different type of bolt/nut, steel wheels usually have a taper on the nut bearing onto at tapered hole in the wheel, alloys usually have a nut with flat face with a washer bearing on a flat face on the wheel.

I am sure there are plenty of cases where this is not the case with multiple variations for specific cases and if they are coming from the car maker then I assume they are tested and safe, mixing aftermarket stuff can get messy as to whether it is safe or not but then the same is true for fitting all after market stuff so make your own mind up.

[Snagger]

19 hours ago, Chicken Drumstick said:

Do all alloy wheels have steel inserts? I've never really looked, nor noticed. I don't recall them being very obvious on the alloys I do have.

I can only speak for the RRC/ Defender/ Discovery 1 types, but none of those have hard inserts in the wheel.  They all have parallel sided bores with flat faces and locate on the hub, not the nuts.  The nuts all have loose captive steel washers to ensure they pull evenly on the wheel nave without digging in as they are torqued up.

[Gazzar]

I've fitted the terrafirma spacers pictured above and they torqued up fine.  They are better than some. A lot. The bolts holding the wheels on clamp through the spacer which in my mind is a strong thing.

For an example of what I think are dangerous:

I took these of a 90 a while back.

 

 

Wheel holding studs just tapped into the aluminium, (fine thread in aluminium = stripped thread!!!), studs just cut with a hacksaw, no taper on the spacer to hub nuts, which were non standard, grim.

 

[Snagger]

To be honest, I think what they have done there is to use flat bottomed wells for the spacer retaining nuts and flat faced nuts to ensure maximum clamping force without spreading the aluminium and risking cracking it, as these are hub-centric.  It should also result in less wear between nut and well.  Having bevelled wells with standard nuts is only necessary for centring the wheel or spacer, which only applies to the steel wheels and a minority of plain centred spacers like I had.  It might even reduce the tendency for the nuts to loosen, though the proof of that would be in the pudding.

If the bolts (studs) are fitted with a healthy application of thread lock, then tightened to a sensible amount, then there should be no significant risk of stripping the threads - the thread lock will prevent corrosion and also over-torquing of the stud in the spacer while working on the wheel nuts.  Still, I’d rather see a slimmer profile head and less of a countersink on the stud bore so as to increase the thread engagement and spread the loads more.