MOG LR hybrid axle build

[Stellaghost]

On 7/6/2023 at 7:39 PM, dangerous doug said:

 

 

Let me know your thoughts because I have no idea what I’m doing😂

@dangerous doug where did you get your tre's and taps from please

Regards Stephen

[dangerous doug]

3 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

@dangerous doug where did you get your tre's and taps from please

Regards Stephen

I got them on ebay, both RH thread though and I think I got the last of them as I wanted 3 but could only get 2. I should be machining up the new track rod tomorrow if you want me to do another for you. It’s straight 1 3/4 solid aluminium if that’s any good? Failing that I can just send the tap over

[Stellaghost]

33 minutes ago, dangerous doug said:

I got them on ebay, both RH thread though and I think I got the last of them as I wanted 3 but could only get 2. I should be machining up the new track rod tomorrow if you want me to do another for you. It’s straight 1 3/4 solid aluminium if that’s any good? Failing that I can just send the tap over

No that's ok, track arm is unimog so very strong also it is shaped to fit under diff body, I was thinking more about the steering arm from the box, looking to beef that arm up

Regards Stephen

[dangerous doug]

1 minute ago, Stellaghost said:

No that's ok, track arm is unimog so very strong also it is shaped to fit under diff body, I was thinking more about the steering arm from the box, looking to beef that arm up

Regards Stephen

Thing is with that is you’re still going to have the weaker landrover tre at one end or have you changed that? Is the one you have the same length as a standard landrover one?

[Stellaghost]

21 minutes ago, dangerous doug said:

Thing is with that is you’re still going to have the weaker landrover tre at one end or have you changed that? Is the one you have the same length as a standard landrover one?

Not quite, track rod is unimog with unimog track rod ends, my forged steering arm was drilled for a landrover track rod end from the steering box, if you remember I had to cobble up a tapered teamed

Regards Stephen

[dangerous doug]

First hub is done. and got a new track rod spun up for the mog TREs out of 1 3/4” ali….forgot to take a photo of that but it’s a big boy

 

Pressed on

and pressed on

 

wheel on

 

 

as you can see I have 3” of clearance with these, the wheels are getting banded 2” which leave me an inch so I may change the wheels to the standard offset wolf wheel to narrow everything a bit more and still give me 10mm of clearance to the knuckle. Overall this should increase the track width by 80mm 

 

you May have spotted my miscalculation (**** up) in that I now can’t fit the disk on😂 so I can either do it so the landrover hub comes off or the mog hub comes off to change the disk. No big deal, I just wish I thought of that sooner.

 

my next thought is how to actually drive the hub. For a while I’ve just thought that the bolts for the drive flange can be used….and they still could and im fairly confident it would be fine as all of the load goes through them on a landrover anyway but I’m now thinking about also adding some drive dogs to the mog hub for the landrover hub to react off of aswell. Could aslo drill the landy hub to take 10 bolts like I did on my Salisbury axles. Still not 100% sure though. What’s people’s thoughts on this?

 

[Stellaghost]

Whatever you decide to do the hubs will need to be super tight as the cast iron hubs will be sacrificial if there is any movement, also I wouldn't be drilling too many holes in the cast hub as it may weaken it, I ended up making steel hubs because I was not happy with the Landrover cast ones, but that was because I was going to weld them

As it stands at the moment it looks like you will have a lot of bolts to keep check on when it's testing time, ie, brake disc fasteners, Landrover hub fasteners, wheel nuts and mog hub nut

I was left with two sets to worry about, wheel is tightened up on top of my disc fasteners so they cannot work loose, after that I only have wheel nuts and mog hub nut to keep an eye on

I have to say though it's looking good and your cracking on with it

Regards Stephen

[muddy]

Does the big Mog nut just hold the half shaft into the hub and set the wheel bearing preload? could you make the threaded part off the nut of a heavy duty drive flange? 

Cound you drill down half and half between the hubs and pin it?

What about the 1 ton rim copies would these be an off the shelf solution for wider wheels?

 

Will.

[Stellaghost]

41 minutes ago, muddy said:

Does the big Mog nut just hold the half shaft into the hub and set the wheel bearing preload? could you make the threaded part off the nut of a heavy duty drive flange? 

 

Will.

Unfortunately the big mog nut only holds the wheel hub on, the bearing preload is set using the correct gasket when putting portal box castings back together

Regards Stephen

[dangerous doug]

12 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Whatever you decide to do the hubs will need to be super tight as the cast iron hubs will be sacrificial if there is any movement, also I wouldn't be drilling too many holes in the cast hub as it may weaken it, I ended up making steel hubs because I was not happy with the Landrover cast ones, but that was because I was going to weld them

As it stands at the moment it looks like you will have a lot of bolts to keep check on when it's testing time, ie, brake disc fasteners, Landrover hub fasteners, wheel nuts and mog hub nut

I was left with two sets to worry about, wheel is tightened up on top of my disc fasteners so they cannot work loose, after that I only have wheel nuts and mog hub nut to keep an eye on

I have to say though it's looking good and your cracking on with it

Regards Stephen

This has crossed my mind but I’m not too worried as the wheel nuts, “drive bolts” and mog nuts can be checked externally and the disk bolts will be threaded into the mog hub with a nylock on the back of them so should be ok. You’re right though, if I were to do it  again I would probably have a steel lr pattern hub made but as each hub cost £15 I thought it was worth a shot. Each contact face has a machined surface and with the mog bolt pulling everything tight I would have thought there is less load on everything than what it sees on a landrover axle.

 

@muddy I havnt keyed or staked the hubs together because the lr one is so soft it wouldn’t last. That was an idea I was toying with though. And As Stephen says, the big hub bolt is only keeping the hub onto the axle, it sets no preload as far as I’m aware but will serve the job of squishing these two together and making sure nothing comes flying off

the 1 tons would be good but again I’m trying to keep it narrow and the wolfs allow a bit more calliper clearance for some reason. But then again I seem to have generated a bit more calliper clearance than expected so maybe a different wheel all together will be used

 

[dangerous doug]

I have been doing this sort of thing for years and for some reason I always think I can achieve more in a day than I actually can…anyone else get that?

 

what I did achieve was a mock up template of the caliper mount, tapped the hub for the disk and mounted everything up to check clearances. Happy to say that everything looks good! 
 

did make a boo-boo though, using the disk I have and a landrover hub means I have to take a hub off to change the disk. I wanted to avoid this but it is what it is.

it’s tight but it fits

 

the mock up bracket is just a 3mm thick piece of alli which sped the shaping up alot, stuck some bolts and assorted nuts through it enabling me to wind the bracket in and out so I could get the thickness of the permanent bracket right….turns out that’s 40mm. Could use some 40mm thick aluminium or some plate steel with spacers behind it to make up the difference. The bracket itsself picks up off of 2 of the bolts on the portal box. I’m not sure if this will be ok though… on the one had 40mm out from the mounting face is a bit much for just 2 bolts and on the other it’ll be a lot more ridged than the landrover rear setup. 

 

[Stellaghost]

45 minutes ago, dangerous doug said:

 for some reason I always think I can achieve more in a day than I actually can…anyone else get that?

No.............lol

Regards Stephen

[elbekko]

11 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

I always think I can achieve more in a day than I actually can…anyone else get that?

Yup. Everything seems to take 2-3x as long as you think they should.

[FridgeFreezer]

13 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

I have been doing this sort of thing for years and for some reason I always think I can achieve more in a day than I actually can…anyone else get that?

I'm currently ~20 years into what was going to be a quick gearbox swap and has so far included 1 complete rebuild, 1 incomplete rebuild, 2 rewirings, a new engine, gearbox, transfer box, portal axles, full cage...

And right now the latest little weekend job is at about 5 weekends and counting

[Stellaghost]

Any more progress with the axles @dangerous doug

Regards Stephen

[Daan]

On 7/23/2023 at 8:16 PM, dangerous doug said:

I have been doing this sort of thing for years and for some reason I always think I can achieve more in a day than I actually can…anyone else get that?

No, I don't get that, The last time I spent a day in the garage was before my last-born child arrived, and that was 5 years ago!

But I do get the idea that I achieve less in the 3 hours a week I spend in the garage than I first thought.

[dangerous doug]

3 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Any more progress with the axles @dangerous doug

Regards Stephen

Not really mate, still recovering from tearing the Achilles and have only just got back to work. They are at the state where I can bolt them under the truck and check angles though. Had plenty of time to think about stuff while I was off, the hub is giving me doubts as pointed out by you and others. I think I’ll get them all spun up for mock up and proof of concept and then have some steel hubs made to take the place of the landy hubs….that way I have the ability to weld them and/or have some sort of drive dog in there. My lathe guy is working abroad at the moment so unsure of when I’ll be able to get those done so I can keep moving. 
 

2 hours ago, Daan said:

No, I don't get that, The last time I spent a day in the garage was before my last-born child arrived, and that was 5 years ago!

But I do get the idea that I achieve less in the 3 hours a week I spend in the garage than I first thought.

Yes but I dare say you get more done than me due to your gross efficiency😂

[Stellaghost]

Send me a drawing of sizes and I will see what I've got in round shaft, might be able to help out

Regards Stephen 

 

[dangerous doug]

13 hours ago, Stellaghost said:

Send me a drawing of sizes and I will see what I've got in round shaft, might be able to help out

Regards Stephen 

 

Don’t you have a 1UZ conversion to finish😂 thanks for the offer but I would feel bad taking up more of your time. when I actually get some spare time I can slap everything together and get making stuff. Not sure how you’ve done it on yours but I’m trying to keep everything the same on all 4 corners to minimise the ammount of parts I need to carry. I just need the hubs squaring off, the landy hubs bored out and shaved so I can get it rolling. I may take a grinder to a hub and relieve it between the wheel studs a bit to see if I can get the disk on and off without pulling things apart. If/when it comes to making new drive flanges it would be fairly simple although they need to be 40mm thick. But that’s a job for later

[dangerous doug]

Small update, a day of jumping between a lathe and working on a friends truck, swarf in the eye and a hub coming loose in the Chuck I have these all 75% done

 

just need to trapan what’s left of the wheel flange off of some of them….. or grinder and bringing to size. Then drill holes.

 

after my rethink of using the landy hubs I thought about basically getting the same thing made out of steel with some bigger holes in it……then at 3am ( when all my ideas happen) I realised that all that is, is a wheel spacer. D2 to defender pattern fits the bill and and a google search later showed only 2 people made such a thing that wasn’t a piece of trash; a guy in Latvia……..and Rakeway. In the end, I went with Rakeway and to be fair, they did a good job in a fairly timely manner. Spacers, studs, nuts and boring out the centre hole for me for a reasonable price in 3 weeks. I now just need a 10mm spacer made up to give back what I lost from the landy hub.  
 

so that’s that untill I finish tidying the work space. Trying to come up with a decent solution to a mobile rack I can put these axles on and wheel around. Have seen some online but 150 for them seems a bit excessive for something I would still be crawling around on the floor when I could make something. 

[Stellaghost]

Great to see progress

Regards Stephen

[FridgeFreezer]

9 hours ago, dangerous doug said:

Trying to come up with a decent solution to a mobile rack I can put these axles on and wheel around. Have seen some online but 150 for them seems a bit excessive for something I would still be crawling around on the floor when I could make something.

Someone once abandoned a 6-wheeled DIY shop trolley behind my shed, that thing was fantastic for carting & storing big lumps... in the end I gave it to my neighbour who toast-racked his dinghy on it to wheel it into his garden.

[dangerous doug]

On 10/15/2023 at 5:13 PM, FridgeFreezer said:

 my neighbour who toast-racked his dinghy on it to wheel it into his garden.

I have no idea what that means😂

 

2 updates on this in as many days! Bit of a story, a Facebook post lead to a traveler's site, which lead to meeting a guy, which lead to all 4 hubs and 4 spacers being done within 24hours! Everything lined up and fits nicely!  

so the spacer fits over and is welded to the hub to take up the space I’ve lost from no longer using the landy hub. It also gives me more meat to tap into if I need to use wheel bolts instead of studs. so that’s the basic assembly of it all

the holes are undersize as I don’t know if I’m using knock in studs or tapping out and using bolts. I’m not sure on the clearance behind the hub to the portal box so may have to do something like @FridgeFreezer and peen some studs in there…
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stellaghost]

35 minutes ago, dangerous doug said:

😂 May have to do something like @FridgeFreezer and peen some studs in there…

Put my wheel studs in with the nuts on to hold square and then welded them in

Regards Stephen

[dangerous doug]

4 minutes ago, Stellaghost said:

Put my wheel studs in with the nuts on to hold square and then welded them in

Regards Stephen

I have considered welding them in but it’s a bit of a permanent solution to something that can be damaged easily. The option to change them out if needed is appealing. Did you happen to see how much room there is between the portal box and the back side of the hub?